From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:12:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4f5a88da-f334-4f6c-85ee-ec52e8d6d616@default> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvc8kdsp.fsf@gnu.org> <6e11cd85-09a0-4b7a-baa2-0c810bdebbce@default> <871tnsg0w7.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87vbl4ei4e.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419203605 21348 80.91.229.3 (21 Dec 2014 23:13:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 23:13:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Tom , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 22 00:13:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2pgb-00082u-It for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 00:13:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38558 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2pga-0006Tn-Q0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:13:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34483) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2pgO-0006H6-VB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:13:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2pgG-0006Xr-7Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:13:04 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27771) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2pgG-0006XS-12; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:12:56 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id sBLNCriO001362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 23:12:53 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBLNCq5A022365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 21 Dec 2014 23:12:53 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id sBLNCqDW022357; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 23:12:52 GMT In-Reply-To: <87vbl4ei4e.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180452 Archived-At: > >> Users want to get the information fast and it is much > >> faster to search for something in google than trying to > >> find the relevant section of the manual. > > > > And why is that a problem? What is wrong with people using > > a web search engine like Google to get access to information > > about Emacs? >=20 > Not all information is good, not all information matches the version > you are using. No, of course not. And some people can google better than others. And people can learn to google better. And some things are not so easy to find by googling anyway. And yes, it can be easy to get not-so-good information sometimes. And it is possible not to be aware that the info found is not so good. Still. It's not because a tool that can be helpful is not also a panacea that it is something to be avoided. Web search engines are not the problem here, IMO. > One of the top hits for AUCTeX I remember being annoyed at contained > information that was bad advice even when it was new, something like > a dozen years before the web search returned it in a high place, > turned bad not too long after that and it belonged to a student > page that was long frozen in time with nobody to look after it any > more, the corresponding mail addresses being either dead or > non-responsive. If *most* of the top hits for a reasonably good query are poor then yes, we can perhaps do a better job of making better information more visible. Typically, this kind of problem is, on the average and over time, taken care of by itself, because more people find other info more useful. Web-search indexing is certainly not perfect, but it is much better than it used to be. And it is quite useful overall. > We can't fix the "web". No, we can't. But that is not really a problem we should worry about here. Not under the topic "on being web-friendly", in any case.