From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Plan for inquiries about Emacs changes Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 08:37:35 +0200 Message-ID: <4eb0d4ed-cab9-9f12-c258-242edc3a02bd@online.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="88818"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 Cc: Richard Stallman To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 26 08:32:51 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jdT8s-000My7-V4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 08:32:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51976 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdT8r-0003Wh-Ve for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 02:32:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34946) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdT65-0001N2-4b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 02:29:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.135]:56669) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdT63-0003RO-Ob; Tue, 26 May 2020 02:29:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.39] ([82.207.239.233]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue010 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N1OsF-1itzzI3ah9-012lAl; Tue, 26 May 2020 08:29:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2Vt3kqNb8x7KAPJk6HiDHckvdIatBS8IwhvuWq+xBevXzIi9B/n CxyKvvavhr09D+eifHYP+Y5AZdulAcShDct4oqu+gw097BlCpJbHI6dhTZa3PYfxbOGS1xb 1OtXaiKmk5wA22nQX5ph87ekLfqVhichTA/j2ZGes+Yj0Z8OU4I4uLjBtCtzv+m2coNgh7w wwiQ6YYJwcGt6ri+IqT0Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:sEAnpnT1q1Q=:0AkAVs4dypHYRmv9OiPMaS ObHJyYxSGreQeO2QItqaziTNlGv9a3s6Wrv1aJDQmXEl7xBTt+BAOL8I77bkW6yOVe6yu0egY 4HrualWxSUkErqWaWIEX3dGNEGY6A3jpTfk8ZgQxwflZBkqG8jBe9OWumDmZOixT80rv6Mxcj eYb2lDTwilFpOM3olV61MJxsM8xsnbmZm9bnOEulJymXw3KluexRcokI1BpmdCuHAn0tlGHfr ouY2de5MCus+KoLJBrY61mIjqzAb4fdornITgePSsg90ECzWiFsdh7fTyrCQ7BNpt1biogYCF TiPriHB1+Zv9prRA+gcUcYYKjJ3w7AQbuSj38NSS/9dw/6uzQUVjARj/rARpz39V5BR1SqXY5 i8zU4XFgXCC/VWIywn3WLWDP2wGUKu6gfCu4w7AbfXMvxiiXk6QauptSn7x2Duic8HRBeJaaS tD/beAqRPKVUb7I2yQJmOjMZTDlbS5vF3ilPBIHCtMJ/ssAh5mEzjSsHqpAFV6rrMJ0/BC9Zk 8tCTcnhJHQRzYtLWpQuaJyj8SS2AsSg8Ni45niNyHjI2SmLvansj3rmE0c02Vg5Qcf85n+gQl ZvTFgF4+Ib7Gq6GKi1Xh/XyoTp4x6r5ZGnje9qwUJHG3p5CIPNjODVqchLL1LN5ht7OfWWMvo vz237IFUq4QFXzpjvSZvS38SFY/HlWnRAcvZFx7qSWu8HPEDONO5XwnRlxT2dF+MoKnjL9A6p XyCxB0WP/m7DCe7bZ59y9Mf5og7DNZANLXQGaFUEbsMSJt61BkUNP4i8iq7Pfl+DmKobzGjF Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.126.135; envelope-from=andreas.roehler@online.de; helo=mout.kundenserver.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/26 02:29:52 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251429 Archived-At: On 25.05.20 06:39, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Here's the method I propose for inquiries (we used to call them "polls") > about users' views about possible changes in well-known behaviors. > Any comments or suggestions? > > > * Make a file for the replies to go into. > > * Make a mailing address which drops all mail into the file. > > * Write a inquiry statement which describes the proposed change in > sufficient detail that people can judge it, what kind of information > we seek, and where to email the response. Include a deadline for > replies at least 6 weeks in the future. > > If possible, we should tell users how to select various behaviors, so > that they can state their opinions based on comparing actual > experiences. > > End the inquiry statement with the following text. > > We do not seek "votes", but rather understanding. If you are for > the change, please explain why. Would it help you directly? If > so, in what scenarios? How often, and how strongly, would it > benefit you? What would the benefit be? > > Or is it that you think it will improve Emacs, or speed Emacs > development, by helping other users? How so? > > Please distinguish between what you know and what you predict. > > Likewise, if you are against the change, please explain why. > Would it inconvenience you directly? If so, in what scenarios? > How often, and how strongly, would it inconvenience you? What > would the inconvenience be? > > Or is it that you think it will harm Emacs or Emacs development by > inconveniencing others? How so? > > We invite you also to propose alterations in the proposed change that > you think would improve it -- saying in what scenario that would be an > improvement, and how so, etc. > > Please post the URL of this page in forums where it is appropriate, > and resend it to Emacs users and mailing lists where you know people > will be glad to receive it. > > It is crucial to urge people repeatedly to explain their positions > because there is a strong tendency for people not to bother. > > * Put the inquiry statement in a web page under gnu.org/software/emacs. > > * Mail the inquiry statement info-gnu-emacs, help-gnu-emacs and > emacs-tangents, with the URL of the web page _and_ the full text > of the inquiry statement. > > Also post a note referring to the web page on reddit.com/r/emacs, and > any other suitable places. Mail the URL to Sacha Chua > . > > * Wait until at least two weeks after the deadline, then study and > record the responses. Note down all interesting comments, since they > are the most important information in the responses. > > * Do count how many people support each position that people support, > but it would be a mistake to make the actual decision based simply on > counting. A given change can affect one user very often, and affect > another user only rarely, but they could both state a "strong > preference". > > * We are not compelled to choose between "make that change" and "no > change". The best outcome of the inquiry is that the responses show > us how to design a way to please almost all users, almost all the > time, and not displease any user very much. > What about implementing in a way Python language did: https://www.python.org/dev/peps Thanks, Andreas