From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 15:51:07 +0300 Message-ID: <4eafd0d9-64e7-e775-80e6-6aeb8c25c839@yandex.ru> References: <831ro2tqqx.fsf@gnu.org> <4a1fd3f4-df92-c756-9874-4d07b54148ac@yandex.ru> <3bd09dca-dcdc-7569-e5fb-f6b53397af9d@yandex.ru> <83pnbjokdt.fsf@gnu.org> <2b9f91bb-e233-e24b-27d3-384dd66c4e8d@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="21574"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yandros@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, joaotavora@gmail.com To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 05 14:51:59 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVx3G-0005To-OB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 14:51:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42942 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVx3F-00041s-Fq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 08:51:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37500) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVx2W-0003Nc-P3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 08:51:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]:40312) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVx2V-0003un-Mr; Tue, 05 May 2020 08:51:12 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id e16so2599852wra.7; Tue, 05 May 2020 05:51:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+Ts1K8YjC7x1BS7HgzDHSBsroBl4mMHrTIUiOYOMj6c=; b=uNqzXVT0K4IUeiMfh/Wuh6zQJeay3rWI7oQPkLe8g7p3YzoNRGZPlw8e6++pHSfrT6 Rr4nEVatJ4acBOz9W/7sxeUW0lKLBtT4mFgpCkK+YngvQ6NR8isSJtRQVxW3xHBdGAzZ sluFDVvT4nnyVpKMyHRA1Sh8tvyDTJ/RWbQYpGBt/pFfY7vZdlst20AJW15rNMCkcfRc gekG3VjYFML9a7leK0r5m+MAh683uSAsnt4AaRi79ihPQRHmoHusYP689SU9Vuzt5S+B nMe6Y/J2PFUG4R4JOjmZaskXotyDtuolfhtrtKiIjmUkxYViQRZX2Iw+RojKXVWtkxBi /gHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+Ts1K8YjC7x1BS7HgzDHSBsroBl4mMHrTIUiOYOMj6c=; b=MSsQUo/T1l7vJxglmlGwZVmW5nm4bvB6gPwOwBaCdr+/7IWFBRzl1+tNq5UeKCN/Js 8Ff6Mb+XCbRZ8My807JyDBoKL3GS7p+9FREhJCF0mrNkw1P8NDmi+QHnYh9sZRN66FWy l3cgMTic4pwEDzTOYJDjCvvUF98nBtpEai+k3pxHsLOyDs024wl1uCj946QP2uvhGqFo kJResXIbxRMwtJqLSlTsOU9g5N8+d6WcU+1TIHyK+SSFsxebb5lvTzmN9GqpCMM/1RUe JsBChFM6C920oGwB1W6lLT3lt20e7Jk3dvGxgbGC3N0G/95eBoNHjAnVG9caaujpEul7 K17w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY7lFH7ICTWipyOP0z0b2zQrLEBns8a7jiIgbBrxCjwSPalLgX+ 93UoDwDu+mm2XHM2xnx2iNo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIzeQSa0ETcK//9vnTI2XIcGi/Qxce+81OrCsbsbU6CRdf2qehGYFAKzKBEhA09fGL6kVcoXw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ab09:: with SMTP id q9mr3459906wrc.240.1588683069306; Tue, 05 May 2020 05:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k9sm3268644wrd.17.2020.05.05.05.51.07 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 05 May 2020 05:51:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42a; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42a.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248974 Archived-At: On 05.05.2020 05:53, Richard Stallman wrote: > > It adds features where there were none, sure. > > > But changing something that exists, especially when it had existed for a > > while, is a long, arduous journey with rare chance of success, IME. > > That is how it should be. Stability in Emacs interfaces is very important. It should be harder to change than something new and non-established, for sure. But other factors should play into this as well: the actual impact on the users, on one hand. And whether the change is an objective improvement. If we hold on to the past too strongly every single time, the future will zip right by us.