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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: "Clément Pit--Claudel" <clement.pit@gmail.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: forward-comment and syntax-ppss
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2016 08:22:45 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4ded3b07-18ab-4864-b72d-f217a86c123d@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877a8d5a-ee08-29a1-8c7e-6cc8a82dfc83@gmail.com>

> >> Thus, without making things harder for many other facilities.
> > No one has given an example of how narrowing makes things
> > hard "for many other facilities" - or even for one facility.
> 
> I think I gave one example of how narrowing breaks proof-general; in fact, I
> explained I developed my own alternative to narrowing with overlays because
> other packages broke in the face of regular narrowing.

"Narrowing breaks proof-general".  Really?  Narrowing did that?
This is all I saw that you said about it:

  There are many such places; unfortunately, the use of (point-min)
  means that the overlays do not have the right starting point:
  they start from the beginning of the narrowed region.
 
  It's hard to fix this issue, because uses of point-min don't
  carry sufficient semantic information: did the original author
  mean (point-min), or 1? There's no general way to tell but to
  read the surrounding code.

IIUC, the problem is that p-g makes use of some code that uses
`point-min', and p-g does not know whether that code intended
for `point-min' to mean the start of a buffer restriction or
position 1 of the buffer.

My answer to that is that `point-min' ALWAYS means the start
of the buffer restriction (narrowing), if it is restricted.

If p-g cannot count on that then it cannot count on using
code that doesn't understand that.  It should know what code
that it reuses does; if not, all bets are off.

It sounds like it is not narrowing that broke p-g, but its
use of some broken code that uses `point-min' without
understanding that it refers to the beginning of a buffer
restriction.  Or perhaps p-g just does not know what the
code it reuses does.

For p-g to decide whether it should `widen', it should be
enough for it to know whether _it_ wants to work with the
full buffer.  If it tries to reuse some other code that is
flakey or unsure in that regard, then I'd say that p-g is
breaking itself.

Code that uses `point-min' should always expect that the
buffer is (because it could be) narrowed.  It should never
assume that `point-min' is necessarily position 1.

Am I missing something?



  reply	other threads:[~2016-12-16 16:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 299+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-11-28 19:50 Preview: portable dumper Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 19:58 ` Burton Samograd
2016-11-28 20:11   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:14   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:16     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:29     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:20   ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 20:22     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:26       ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 20:31         ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 20:37           ` Burton Samograd
2016-11-28 20:44             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 16:02               ` Ted Zlatanov
2016-11-29 17:58                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 16:48               ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-29 17:32                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 19:55                   ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-11-29 17:43                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 17:49                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 18:17                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 18:03                   ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 18:23                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 18:49                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 19:02                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01  9:18                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-01 18:11                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02  4:28                             ` Ken Raeburn
2016-12-02  4:41                               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02  8:08                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02  8:03                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 17:24                                 ` Ken Raeburn
2016-11-28 20:39           ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 20:34         ` Burton Samograd
2016-11-28 20:31     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:21   ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-28 20:34     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 20:47       ` John Wiegley
2016-11-28 21:14         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-28 21:55           ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-28 22:18           ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 18:40             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 19:11               ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 20:07                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 20:29                   ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 20:36                     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 21:30                       ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30  8:26                       ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-11-29 19:12               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 16:55   ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-29 18:39     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 19:03       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 19:59         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 20:28           ` John Wiegley
2016-11-29 19:13       ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-29 19:35         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-29 20:54           ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 16:38             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-30 18:57               ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 19:14                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 21:03                   ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 21:06                     ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 21:44                       ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01  3:32                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01  9:16                         ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-01 17:26                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01 17:35                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01 17:58                             ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 21:35                     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 21:44                       ` John Wiegley
2016-11-30 21:50                         ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 22:20                           ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01  1:37                           ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-01  1:45                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01  3:47                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-01  4:10                             ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01  4:12                               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01  4:49                                 ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01  5:12                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01  9:03                                     ` Matt Armstrong
2016-12-02  8:10                                       ` John Wiegley
2016-12-01  9:18                                     ` Phillip Lord
2016-12-01  4:10                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-01  3:41                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-11-30 19:29                 ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-11-30 19:45                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30 21:06               ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-01  9:18       ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-01 18:09         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02  2:18           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-02  7:54             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02  8:08               ` John Wiegley
2016-12-02  8:59                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 19:39                   ` John Wiegley
2016-12-02 20:11                     ` Karl Fogel
2016-12-02 21:22                       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 22:06                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 23:15                         ` Karl Fogel
2016-12-15 14:28                         ` Philippe Vaucher
2017-10-18 23:36                           ` Kaushal Modi
2017-10-19 10:12                             ` Jeremie Courreges-Anglas
2018-02-12 20:18                               ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-13 16:37                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-14 21:03                                   ` Philipp Stephani
2018-02-15  0:42                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-15 23:31                                   ` Ken Brown
2018-02-15 23:36                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-16  1:56                                       ` Ken Brown
2018-02-16  2:36                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-17 23:38                                           ` Ken Brown
2018-02-17 23:59                                             ` Ken Brown
2018-02-18  0:02                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-19 13:30                                               ` Ken Brown
2018-02-19 17:03                                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-19 22:33                                                   ` Ken Brown
2018-02-20 16:32                                                     ` Ken Brown
2018-02-20 17:23                                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-20  1:16                                                   ` Andy Moreton
2018-02-17  1:01                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-19 17:06                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-19 22:00                                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2018-02-17 11:53                                   ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-02-17 12:09                                     ` Alan Third
2018-02-17 14:12                                       ` Charles A. Roelli
2018-02-20  0:54                                   ` Andy Moreton
2018-02-15  4:28                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2018-02-15 22:13                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-15 22:30                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-02-15 22:35                                       ` Daniel Colascione
2018-02-15 22:56                                         ` Paul Eggert
2018-02-15 22:35                                     ` Paul Eggert
2018-02-15 18:34                                 ` andres.ramirez
2018-02-19 22:01                                 ` Daniele Nicolodi
2018-02-20  0:28                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 22:06                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 22:28                         ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03  8:48                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03  9:34                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 12:47                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 14:36                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-03 15:11                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-04 12:20                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-04 12:48                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-04 15:53                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 17:36                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 17:40                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-03 21:09                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-03 21:31                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-04  4:25                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-04 12:34                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-04 12:51                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-04 14:08                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-04 15:22                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-04 22:24                                             ` forward-comment and syntax-ppss (was: Preview: portable dumper) Stefan Monnier
2016-12-06 19:55                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-06 22:56                                                 ` forward-comment and syntax-ppss Stefan Monnier
2016-12-07  6:55                                                   ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-07 14:01                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-07 14:49                                                       ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-07 14:53                                                         ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-07 22:04                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-07 22:23                                                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-08 19:31                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-08 19:54                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-09  8:37                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-08  2:32                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-08 20:15                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-08 20:34                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-08 21:25                                                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-08 21:35                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-08 21:13                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-09 18:00                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-09 18:47                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-09 22:33                                                                       ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-09 23:09                                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-10  6:56                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-10 18:39                                                                       ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-08 21:24                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-08 21:47                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-09  7:39                                                                     ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-09 19:07                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-09 23:30                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-11  0:24                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-11 10:17                                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-11 10:40                                                                         ` Andreas Röhler
2016-12-16  1:33                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16  2:06                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16  8:12                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-16 12:32                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 16:22                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16 19:14                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:16                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17  0:08                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 19:25                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-16 20:06                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:16                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17  0:42                                                                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-17  1:30                                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17  1:40                                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-17  2:26                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 14:37                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-16 14:24                                                                             ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-16 16:22                                                                               ` Drew Adams [this message]
2016-12-16 19:50                                                                                 ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-16 23:16                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17  2:39                                                                                     ` Clément Pit--Claudel
2016-12-17  4:50                                                                                       ` Wording of the Elisp manuals (was: forward-comment and syntax-ppss) Marcin Borkowski
2016-12-20  9:22                                                                                         ` Wording of the Elisp manuals Michael Heerdegen
2016-12-20 10:52                                                                                         ` Wording of the Elisp manuals (was: forward-comment and syntax-ppss) Jean-Christophe Helary
2016-12-20 16:01                                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                             ` <<83oa0c8f7r.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-12-16 16:22                                                                               ` forward-comment and syntax-ppss Drew Adams
2016-12-16 21:00                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                                                                 ` <<8337hn8u81.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-12-16 23:16                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2016-12-16 20:06                                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-16 22:08                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:08                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-17  0:18                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-17  7:37                                                                                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2016-12-17  7:42                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-17 14:41                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-17 14:49                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-17 15:09                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2016-12-18 20:08                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2017-02-05 23:33                                                                                         ` Drew Adams
2016-12-17 15:38                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-19  2:31                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-19 13:12                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-19 13:34                                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-19 14:17                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-19 23:16                                                                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-20 13:33                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2017-11-29 23:48                                                                                                     ` multi-modes and widen (again), was: " Dmitry Gutov
2017-11-30 13:05                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2017-12-01 23:57                                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2016-12-16 23:16                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2016-12-09  8:35                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-09 17:08                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-09 17:22                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-09 21:55                                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 21:31                                   ` Preview: portable dumper Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 12:41                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2016-12-03 17:41                                 ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-03 19:49                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 21:30                                 ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-04  3:31                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-04 23:03                                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 17:24                               ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-03 15:56                             ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-03 21:31                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 23:05                             ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-02 22:29                         ` John Wiegley
2016-12-03 21:28                         ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-04 15:57                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-04 17:12                             ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-04 23:07                               ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-05  0:24                                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-06 10:38                               ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-02  9:00               ` Philippe Vaucher
2016-12-02 10:56                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2017-05-26 19:48                   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2017-05-26 20:26                     ` Kaushal Modi
2017-05-27  7:27                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2016-12-02 13:04               ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-02 14:45                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 14:51                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-02 22:24                     ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-02 23:32                       ` Stefan Monnier
2016-12-03  8:28                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 23:42                     ` Paul Eggert
2016-12-02 15:38                   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-02 17:26                   ` Ken Raeburn
2016-12-02 17:47                     ` Paul Eggert
     [not found]                   ` <<jwvlgvyv10x.fsf-monnier+Inbox@gnu.org>
     [not found]                     ` <<E1cCwGF-0002PT-Kq@fencepost.gnu.org>
2016-12-03  0:07                       ` Drew Adams
2016-12-03  8:25                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-03 20:40                           ` Joost Kremers
2016-12-03 21:30                         ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]                   ` <<<jwvlgvyv10x.fsf-monnier+Inbox@gnu.org>
     [not found]                     ` <<<E1cCwGF-0002PT-Kq@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<2b63d48d-a678-49c2-a3a9-4f91d8d8bdb4@default>
     [not found]                         ` <<8337i5mnb5.fsf@gnu.org>
2016-12-03 16:14                           ` Drew Adams
2016-12-03 16:42                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2016-12-02 14:27           ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-28 21:14 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-28 23:01 ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-28 23:17   ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 13:06     ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-29 21:19       ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 21:35         ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-29 21:50           ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-29 22:01             ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30  0:37               ` Daniel Colascione
2016-11-30  7:35                 ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-30 13:33                   ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-30 20:07               ` Richard Stallman
2016-11-30 20:18                 ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-03 21:32                   ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 21:37                     ` Daniel Colascione
2016-12-04 23:03                       ` Richard Stallman
2016-12-03 21:54                     ` Paul Eggert
2016-11-29 22:01           ` Stefan Monnier
2016-11-29 22:22           ` Philipp Stephani
2016-11-29 22:34             ` Paul Eggert

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