From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:33:34 -0400 Message-ID: <4cd72094-babe-e918-ab5f-49226731164d@gmail.com> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <642fd4b4-8b1c-a537-5a5f-6940691ec4b9@gmail.com> <861szo4zgq.fsf@gko.net> <86wphg2tpk.fsf@gko.net> <87eg3nwmu4.fsf@mbork.pl> <9707a440-fb03-9d0c-11f7-7bfe6cbebb6c@gmail.com> <87d1j7we20.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="946k8kqO1xpoXPXwJtpjVdbKlSwaBARsT" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476192926 19208 195.159.176.226 (11 Oct 2016 13:35:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 13:35:26 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 15:35:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1btxCf-0000Lm-67 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 15:34:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55840 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btxCd-000087-Qv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:34:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38730) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btxBd-0007uf-2S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:33:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btxBc-0007kg-3k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:33:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:51585) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1btxBb-0007kE-Pj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:33:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [18.189.6.80] ([18.189.6.80]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue101) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M8QjK-1az7Ip0ZLm-00vspy; Tue, 11 Oct 2016 15:33:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87d1j7we20.fsf@mbork.pl> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:lriYf9CCSfXFJvS05Z42HrnodKx5h2+2rl9pX/XZ8AM0quiMzmW 238RZMwLsZx29sbzR62ffrIUTCzJb8Zj93kTb6LnBBhIoL9ZNg6RjQzZTbKJCw4eWbMSlvk g4Itg7QvzHlH2KhR6s9tSbcMlQZtW9yHcuPL9MPfN5Rmt1gFJeQoLFRkiUl48O+iS9hw9+M If60ukmjfZQwBxBRmd+Dw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:PkXefZRn5gA=:mjUSTrHOawdVSvs/sXU4PI p4+YzsUQmDKY67HGwKpAnNZ31u3qOG5bDBLmHmH5c7fKnoOgczzggNhosug1qV/0VcJx/j8wM sCR5C3T89Df3QvKamjMDtdR8TXh96Zwvfn2O9XnWWOHkjyrzJzRU2TMlWJMRnfvT+3wo2plAn Qlwfx3MDVl+OA+h60LvdaC0mDUSBTTHO8j1iQB0xXdvJB7AwVbXrbPP15/uxTFN5oamge5z+x b2AF7zwfrQZewKaNvZvWoX/yrFvEbNfKMm1FH3Bwl1e79SkPPhXkHnGLd4kXmpQFLRKSzZ7Ij C9Sa8cztjczj6VWeXmgD7nqPeqyW1xYFGwXrv2G2FLiNqK6Z3w4c+6BQcMHKm6Xv0Mt/wkeEx gEvwSostHJMu8SCqjAMZC1ROpLjUGwGPnpy2/dj0mUj8kfMHRwt/CHAaQ2v2R6oJGSRUxlX11 kB4W9D6bWFJZQCuNEvjX/HfwlKb47o97mLYwPilcgWcYyBwpxfm9valS0Tpm2dlqEzNT15tFE imX19AQs8P2Fsc9+a5f9ZBfajA2wc8unzt/Rq2mMjdivAl53q+YyK4/g/SfriJ0MX2ICca7pw iOUPVmcDOsnlfkImtd3e5tY88YRA39yHSidScBmv+SwxUCrQ/5P0PhaDbmAM3zn+GUWkcZ+eQ thlYoPBeEDhA4EqoTdd2ZJRHC6VC2ExeZyNgwfoZ2KgSHEycgY1rxZIKMBnW5vNPQZWE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 217.72.192.73 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208158 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --946k8kqO1xpoXPXwJtpjVdbKlSwaBARsT Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="tnQ0qc104cwNCshxXkl6stqdnBQpcKdru"; protected-headers="v1" From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit--Claudel?= To: Marcin Borkowski Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Message-ID: <4cd72094-babe-e918-ab5f-49226731164d@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <642fd4b4-8b1c-a537-5a5f-6940691ec4b9@gmail.com> <861szo4zgq.fsf@gko.net> <86wphg2tpk.fsf@gko.net> <87eg3nwmu4.fsf@mbork.pl> <9707a440-fb03-9d0c-11f7-7bfe6cbebb6c@gmail.com> <87d1j7we20.fsf@mbork.pl> In-Reply-To: <87d1j7we20.fsf@mbork.pl> --tnQ0qc104cwNCshxXkl6stqdnBQpcKdru Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2016-10-11 03:16, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > On 2016-10-11, at 06:18, Cl=C3=A9ment Pit--Claudel wrote: >=20 >> On 2016-10-11 00:06, Marcin Borkowski wrote: >>> BTW, someone (Raman?) on this thread said that namespaces save typing= =2E >>> That's not exactly right; that goal is achieved with autocompletion (= as >>> he already noticed). What namespaces really do is twofold: >>> >>> 1. Help avoid collisions, and >>> >>> 2. (last but not least!) save on reading. >>> >>> Long function names are really bad. >> >> I think nameless makes both of these a non-issue. You get "import x a= s y" using custom prefixes (such as fl: for font-lock), and for your own = code there's no typing (C-- inserts the package prefix) and no wasted spa= ce. >> >> Bottom line: I don't see much use for proper namespaces :) >=20 > That's only true to some extent. Both names and nameless packages (eve= n > though I really appreciate them) are really prosthetics; I'd have to > check it, but how do they behave with tools like xref-find-definitions,= > edebug, lispy and others? I'm pretty sure that names won't cooperate > with them nicely (I vaguely remember trying, though I'm not sure), I'd > have to check nameless. I never used names. Nameless works entirely fine with all of the tools y= ou mentioned, because it only touches font-locking. Cl=C3=A9ment. --tnQ0qc104cwNCshxXkl6stqdnBQpcKdru-- --946k8kqO1xpoXPXwJtpjVdbKlSwaBARsT Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJX/OouAAoJEPqg+cTm90wjqOkP/RzVc7PH26m0F+Z/rVacvZnf BB5ns0CuayRwDPDgXacMDCk3qmO0naQW4rJLhsZ9BmSMvaceSH7+MPpm9lcQoNNj V5xyMWMLvYVTnduzigOS0g62DutlcPLRhNRXc+8AvnRQArWsT5nBp2jqhMaFmgJq Zh5YtWGUUwblkqfsVGhyXDJ4nMFModGp+TnndHdeb1rDyhrqdaBP4ehZ/L/MRHS9 9eQHjv2Nara89uc0iaCqVh92Lzucps1GwmA91MPFvYk18uNQPHOKpcRK9S7R7IuO NCKtzaBh3+kH/OWN0rZeOlQpMUDNDxeURU/Z/qaz2lihdaiH/wL25BWft+Sksg0Z aNacM7HtPEE6Q4J96sUhwgX1HUJu2c8oyzwJX1/5CrZcs57Hv3qa3gvlNcGshbUq mvIzr1K2e7LI8KTZar3kElQKhdNpi4MXMBinXUtW811u6Jcg8lFECbFFpJONPp9D nQhDSqx27btTt4WGLNfQq2+qg1zZr7SmgRivKhQW61upZBnCxIC1s1EEhZvtkxk8 Lejuc+vCKKvXMpDvsBfT2B6OQCPoTEbrBhgolsu6S1TL8RtQ+sJ3R2tse+Ux7sDp lTAmf8Rn5Y7qxWZ2Samc4viOAVNtmlvWcFdjyKAlGUmMGITXF1eRGKaHj9GfSgym VU+lsTqDFeOl1OJp3CUO =OKwC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --946k8kqO1xpoXPXwJtpjVdbKlSwaBARsT--