From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 23:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4bb36686-34e7-4ac8-898c-74e254902349@default> References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <83zha8tluq.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9kwi6ta.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83wo5ccgg4.fsf@gnu.org> <87lflshxtq.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <83mu68cbbb.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7wghxdz.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <87eerkgey1.fsf@osv.gnss.ru> <112aecd7-8165-6cae-ef69-08d14d843841@yandex.ru> <5d158a63-7173-424c-9d9f-ce7856f1eae7@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="60015"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org, kfogel@red-bean.com, homeros.misasa@gmail.com, tkk@misasa.okayama-u.ac.jp, Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Kangas , Dmitry Gutov , Sergey Organov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 08:50:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaD7h-000FVb-D0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 08:50:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45678 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaD7g-0001By-Fr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 02:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaD7A-0000mJ-Qa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 02:49:36 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:51232) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaD78-00089C-Rt; Sun, 17 May 2020 02:49:35 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04H6fIaK129266; Sun, 17 May 2020 06:49:30 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=1JKLQHg6HVDXlc2Kr1zAen4gz60IGDdhqaZcuuyqhtI=; b=tIAjHDD2FxdVT+xiGSJfGWYnv8YkAUA473bP3NW/9CR/BKVgUSyOvbgBJ6Y90wOC2Dt8 vXac70Y0hR10wsGbMbwq/KrP1wwt7EhVwvhrn8cH4RGZCa1L0UIf/MCDA0LAYZ3F3/4w zzQuXs8ZqPxefPD4KdAHW2IfkhWxc+AaNxp6Cbs0LRBeCBGN/A2tDFGHd4g8boRCSF2t 4zAJBtl+9iDlonAQhql2xbXd14K6rBohyCOn7VSqg1qmDbxy48r8fiucRgH7XMqik/t0 AmbeebZ78cCdNDUkpnrKP/RjbfsTAChltO9tn8ogo1MRCwy3Sk6tjbXyyFvIzut42Poy jA== Original-Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3128tn2gr4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 17 May 2020 06:49:29 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04H6mCYI185760; Sun, 17 May 2020 06:49:29 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 312t3tj10d-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 17 May 2020 06:49:29 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04H6nPig018587; Sun, 17 May 2020 06:49:25 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9623 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=18 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2005170060 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9623 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 impostorscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 cotscore=-2147483648 suspectscore=18 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2004280000 definitions=main-2005170059 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=156.151.31.85; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=userp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/17 02:49:32 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.1-3.10 [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250567 Archived-At: > >> Agreed. Top positioning might be better for other > >> reasons though. > > > > What reasons? >=20 > Well, a visual hierarchy usually starts at the top. For example when > you read a book, a newspaper or browse the web. What does that have to do with minibuffer and echo-area interaction? > There have been studies on eye-tracking on web > pages, which show that people generally start > reading at the top left. Yes, they do (at least in a left-to-right language/culture). But what does that have to do with where the minibuffer is placed? Do you start with the minibuffer and then read farther down or farther ahead through some hierarchy? I don't think so. If you did, then I imagine it would indeed be up top-left. The minibuffer real estate is also used for the echo area. (Doesn't have to be, but in some ways that's "natural" - especially makes sense when an Emacs<->user dialog is involved.) Having status and error messages at the bottom is pretty common, and not just in editors. It may be less common to also have an input field there.