From: Maxim Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: CSV parsing and other issues (Re: LC_NUMERIC)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 23:51:40 +0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4ad5bbe4-a5f0-37f8-2642-0cbdfcdfacc2@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83v96kapog.fsf@gnu.org>
Eli, Boruch, you are overreacting (both).
On 11/06/2021 13:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> There's no need to
> introduce into Emacs features that are useful for a few people.
I think that expectation of users and developers in respect to support
of locales evolves in time. Proper formatting of numbers is useful more
widely then for a few people.
Boruch, till your last messages, I believed that you were convinced that
adding support of "'" and "I" is not so easy.
Support of locale-dependent format specifiers through printf looks
attractive but it can not be directly used by `format' or other elisp
functions in a safe way.
Some code calling `format' implicitly expects that it generates
locale-independent numbers, so changing its behavior is not backward
compatible.
libc can only work with single global locale at any moment. I expect
that attempt to "temporary" call setlocale(LC_NUMERIC, "") will be
permanent source of bugs: forgotten reverting call, call of a function
that needs universal format in locale-specific context, threads started
at inappropriate moment, etc.
Another implementation of locale functions is necessary with ability to
perform parsing and formatting without touching of global variables.
Personally I expect basic level functions with explicit locale context
(random names):
(locale-format-number-with-ctx
(locale-get-current-context :group-separator 'suppress)
1234567890)
or with explicit locale instead of `locale-get-current-context'. It is
better to add some convenience helpers that inspect text properties,
buffer-local and global settings to determine context:
(locale-format-number 1234567890)
and maybe even `locale-format[-with-ctx]' that accepts printf-like
format string.
On 11/06/2021 03:20, Boruch Baum wrote:
> Then don't make them locale specific. Implement the
> single-quote specifier the same way you currently handle the
> floating-point specifier '%f', a locale-specific format that
> has existed in emacs without complaint since ...
You are confusing something. "%f" is not locale-specific inside Emacs,
it uses "universal" format with dot "." as decimal separator even in
locales with "," in this role. At the same time "'" is highly
locale-dependent in libc. Group sizes and group separator widely
vary. I posted this example earlier:
LC_NUMERIC=C.UTF-8 /usr/bin/printf "%'d\n" 1234567890
1234567890
LC_NUMERIC=en_US.UTF-8 /usr/bin/printf "%'d\n" 1234567890
1,234,567,890
LC_NUMERIC=es_ES.UTF-8 /usr/bin/printf "%'d\n" 1234567890
1.234.567.890
LC_NUMERIC=ru_RU.UTF-8 /usr/bin/printf "%'d\n" 1234567890
1 234 567 890
LC_NUMERIC=en_IN.UTF-8 /usr/bin/printf "%'d\n" 1234567890
1,23,45,67,890
> It's not your responsibilty.
>
> I can say that in the use-case that prompted my request, I'm
> confident it will *never* be an issue. I ask format to give
> me a string and I display it. End of story. Whether just 99%
> or 99.99%, the overwhelming majority of cases will be the
> same. Your concerns are total non-issues.
I would prefer to avoid idiosyncrasy when "%'d" is locale-dependent but
"%f" is not.
P.S.
With some limitation (printf binary is available and you do not need to
work with floating point numbers), you can leverage libc formatting
facilities with the following crutch:
(shell-command-to-string (format "/usr/bin/printf \"%%'d\" %d"
1234567890))
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-11 16:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-06 23:36 CSV parsing and other issues (Re: LC_NUMERIC) Boruch Baum
2021-06-07 12:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 0:45 ` Boruch Baum
2021-06-08 2:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-08 15:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-08 16:35 ` Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-08 18:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 16:28 ` Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-10 16:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 18:01 ` Boruch Baum
2021-06-10 18:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 19:04 ` Boruch Baum
2021-06-10 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 20:20 ` Boruch Baum
2021-06-11 6:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 8:18 ` Boruch Baum
2021-06-11 16:51 ` Maxim Nikulin [this message]
2021-06-11 13:56 ` Filipp Gunbin
2021-06-11 14:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 18:52 ` Filipp Gunbin
2021-06-11 19:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-11 16:58 ` Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-11 18:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-14 16:38 ` Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-14 17:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-16 17:27 ` Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-16 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-10 21:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-06-12 14:41 ` Maxim Nikulin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-06-02 18:54 LC_NUMERIC formatting [FEATURE REQUEST] Boruch Baum
2021-06-03 14:44 ` CSV parsing and other issues (Re: LC_NUMERIC) Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-03 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-06-04 16:31 ` Maxim Nikulin
2021-06-04 19:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=4ad5bbe4-a5f0-37f8-2642-0cbdfcdfacc2@gmail.com \
--to=manikulin@gmail.com \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).