From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4aaa3f52-97ef-4573-91ca-54e6a1f0f8b1@default> References: <4XvMn7QQudwuCq-3cSOnqK_gBoHnmblv2--PKi2oupbCsZwaxxrzA2Chwb6LEzzg1TYjAJNboC8lwPgw8VA5IhYUBs-Jly9HfTqPtsgZUHg=@protonmail.com> <707cb938-3722-46eb-a2ef-0211259680e9@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="1863"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ndame , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 22:06:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUyP0-0000Ji-C1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 22:06:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37768 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUyOz-0005vL-Eb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 16:06:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52146) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUyOR-0004X4-Vg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 16:05:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUyOR-0008Nr-4U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 16:05:47 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:58490) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUyOQ-0008Ng-Kr; Sat, 02 May 2020 16:05:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 042K3dME023621; Sat, 2 May 2020 20:05:44 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=j5xDArNPxMSMI1gBSvuoFU3Su2mueuZqJ818XN8tU3U=; b=JSI2qf5Zt/NYQ2MNci9+V0NtLUl34PNoQ0WaswgxuaBIp/PG2KatVA3Luts7Y99m8uNV bQpDeaA51HGgjaJ2O7MyT2xS2rDxjkPWXCXs61E/SFTJeb8LCyx2l5WFpBbFKBy1JyJ4 2u4Dpe1uxmOJpSmbbg44yEiq8FOnwOvPguVQpnQXfRtpmgREYCgu/GsIQRgr5nwWuMod AO7hvm9ojSWglX96gZLDVcRBrz3Srb1i35DuXKvr/R7juglUVJ+iHgQBBLTW5M+p5p4+ eGye3Vq22FP9yFEVcaOBAEI3wbSayKdw6WyDhhQYlspLKULMo3TOitJ+1P0UQAq0xC2o pw== Original-Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30s0tm1qy6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 02 May 2020 20:05:44 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 042K5cjV159331; Sat, 2 May 2020 20:05:44 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30rwysnd8s-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 02 May 2020 20:05:43 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 042K5grH011385; Sat, 2 May 2020 20:05:42 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9609 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=775 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005020175 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9609 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=828 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005020175 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/02 12:49:53 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248559 Archived-At: > > FWIW, I really do NOT think that anyone who's > > been involved with Emacs development has little > > care for newbies or for making Emacs flexible and > > easy to use. >=20 > I do NOT think something like that either Drew, nor did > I state that, just to be clear. Emacs is a prime example of > flexibility, sure! I wrote, Emacs is super-adaptable. > Ease of use can be debatable, what is easy for you and me > does not necessary mean easy for somebody else. I wasn't saying anything about what you said, beyond responding to your question: > Question is also do you want those people who are > unvilling to scratch the surface and deep-dive > into Emacs and spend time to learn it and configure > it, to use Emacs? There's nothing personal in my answer to that question. It's a reasonable question. And I gave my honest answer to it - zero about you.