From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: `set-variable' should use :set Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:40:20 -0700 Message-ID: <4EEEE63344BB4696B708EE3C3A8BE349@us.oracle.com> References: <87d3r3qd44.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <871v7jqchc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <033D7FA139144B03B1370B9E9C1113ED@us.oracle.com> <87bp6nklx2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <823F3463F14A490A90A6075368296AC2@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1287754874 11324 80.91.229.12 (22 Oct 2010 13:41:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:41:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "'Stephen J. Turnbull'" , 'Miles Bader' , 'Emacs-Devel devel' To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 22 15:41:10 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Hro-0001Ot-6D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 15:41:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58505 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P9Hrn-0001dZ-GH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:41:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44179 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P9Hre-0001bg-M7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Hrc-0002BG-RW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:40:58 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:33486) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P9Hrb-0002Av-AI; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:40:55 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o9MDenQC020068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:40:51 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o9MDemZC004927; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 13:40:48 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 707175321287754821; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:40:21 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.219.235) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:40:20 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Actx1hBD6+xhk1u6TCGe4QA+76m6kAADxdhw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 In-reply-to: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131987 Archived-At: > > =A0("Obsolete" is not a verb BTW (e.g. "obsoleted"), >=20 > It is, according at least to >=20 > - Free Merriam-Webster: http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/obsoleted > - Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary: > http://machaut.uchicago.edu/?resource=3DWebster%27s&word=3Dobsolete Oh, fun. The first of those URLs claims that as a verb it is (only) transitive = ("You obsoleted the bike"). The second of those claims that as a verb it is = (only) intransitive ("You obsoleted, but the bike obsoleted first"). It is not an intransitive verb according to the first URL, and it is not = a transitive verb according to the second. Abracadabra, by Web dictionary addition it is neither transitive nor intransitive - call it = "interesting". ;-) Anyway, if you're happy with "obsoleted" in the doc it's A OK by me. My = remark was parenthetical and qualified with a "BTW". IOW, it's beside the = point. And as I said (quite earnestly), you _can_ verb any noun. There is no = Academie Anglaise[*]; we take a different view of language (and dictionaries). So please, manual any words you like, whether or not they can be = successfully dictionaried. A dictionary does not a word make - we make em. http://www.socialmeteor.com/2009/09/02/facebook-a-verb-thats-whats-happen= in/, http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/jul/05/saturdayreviewsfeatres.guardi= anrevie w, etc. Most important is clarity, and I find "However, this feature is largely obsoleted by `defcustom'" quite clear as far as it goes (it doesn't say = why or how). My objection to it was a disagreement with what it claims, not how it = makes the claim. And I was clear that even that objection is minor - I find it = only "a bit" presumptuous to pretend that Customize replaces `set-variable'. Customize obsoletes `set-variable' the same way stalking and killing = your own deer, cleaning it, transporting it, and stewing it obsoletes just = grabbing a bowl of venison stew at the hunting lodge. Customize is an adventure; `set-variable' is sans drama. But at least we've escaped the proposal, and without ever needing to = proposal the escape. ;-) [* At least there was not an Acadamie Anglaise until this summer. http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/lacademie-anglaise. Leave it to = the royals to stand up straight for such silliness - Rule Britannia! On = n'arrete pas le progres.]