Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Angelo Graziosi]

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Yesterday I did the build of Emacs trunk rev.102296 on a a Fedora 14 
GNU/Linux system (at work). Configure says:

[...]
Configured for `x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu'.

   Where should the build process find the source code? 
/home/graziosi/work/emacs
   What operating system and machine description files should Emacs use?
         `s/gnu-linux.h' and `m/amdx86-64.h'
   What compiler should emacs be built with?               gcc -g -O2
   Should Emacs use the GNU version of malloc?             yes
       (Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.)
   Should Emacs use a relocating allocator for buffers?    no
   Should Emacs use mmap(2) for buffer allocation?         no
   What window system should Emacs use?                    x11
   What toolkit should Emacs use?                          GTK
   Where do we find X Windows header files?                Standard dirs
   Where do we find X Windows libraries?                   Standard dirs
   Does Emacs use -lXaw3d?                                 no
   Does Emacs use -lXpm?                                   yes
   Does Emacs use -ljpeg?                                  yes
   Does Emacs use -ltiff?                                  yes
   Does Emacs use a gif library?                           yes -lgif
   Does Emacs use -lpng?                                   yes
   Does Emacs use -lrsvg-2?                                yes
   Does Emacs use imagemagick?                             yes
   Does Emacs use -lgpm?                                   yes
   Does Emacs use -ldbus?                                  yes
   Does Emacs use -lgconf?                                 yes
   Does Emacs use -lselinux?                               yes
   Does Emacs use -lgnutls?                                yes
   Does Emacs use -lxml2?                                  yes
   Does Emacs use -lfreetype?                              yes
   Does Emacs use -lm17n-flt?                              yes
   Does Emacs use -lotf?                                   yes
   Does Emacs use -lxft?                                   yes
   Does Emacs use toolkit scroll bars?                     yes
[...]

and 'About Emacs' menu says that it is a Gtk+ 2.22.0 build. All seems to 
works fine but I notice that the tool bar shows up each icon with, on 
the right, its name. This causes a long tool bar, so that many icons are 
collapsed. I have attached a screen shot.

Any idea because this occurs? ...and workaround?

Thanks,
Angelo.

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Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

2010-11-10 18:59, Angelo Graziosi skrev:
> Yesterday I did the build of Emacs trunk rev.102296 on a a Fedora 14 GNU/Linux
> system (at work). Configure says:
>
> [...]
> Configured for `x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu'.
>
> Where should the build process find the source code? /home/graziosi/work/emacs
> What operating system and machine description files should Emacs use?
> `s/gnu-linux.h' and `m/amdx86-64.h'
> What compiler should emacs be built with? gcc -g -O2
> Should Emacs use the GNU version of malloc? yes
> (Using Doug Lea's new malloc from the GNU C Library.)
> Should Emacs use a relocating allocator for buffers? no
> Should Emacs use mmap(2) for buffer allocation? no
> What window system should Emacs use? x11
> What toolkit should Emacs use? GTK
> Where do we find X Windows header files? Standard dirs
> Where do we find X Windows libraries? Standard dirs
> Does Emacs use -lXaw3d? no
> Does Emacs use -lXpm? yes
> Does Emacs use -ljpeg? yes
> Does Emacs use -ltiff? yes
> Does Emacs use a gif library? yes -lgif
> Does Emacs use -lpng? yes
> Does Emacs use -lrsvg-2? yes
> Does Emacs use imagemagick? yes
> Does Emacs use -lgpm? yes
> Does Emacs use -ldbus? yes
> Does Emacs use -lgconf? yes
> Does Emacs use -lselinux? yes
> Does Emacs use -lgnutls? yes
> Does Emacs use -lxml2? yes
> Does Emacs use -lfreetype? yes
> Does Emacs use -lm17n-flt? yes
> Does Emacs use -lotf? yes
> Does Emacs use -lxft? yes
> Does Emacs use toolkit scroll bars? yes
> [...]
>
> and 'About Emacs' menu says that it is a Gtk+ 2.22.0 build. All seems to works
> fine but I notice that the tool bar shows up each icon with, on the right, its
> name. This causes a long tool bar, so that many icons are collapsed. I have
> attached a screen shot.
>
> Any idea because this occurs? ...and workaround?
>

 From etc/NEWS:

** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the default
is taken from the desktop settings.

	Jan D.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Stefan Monnier]

> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the default
> is taken from the desktop settings.

BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

Stefan Monnier skrev 2010-11-12 00.01:
>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the default
>> is taken from the desktop settings.
>
> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>

There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed by the 
Gnome people. I guess that is logical, as they seem to move towards a 
customization-free desktop.  They decided that both-horiz (icon followed by 
text) is what everybody should have.

Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
% gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both

Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.

	Jan D.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Stefan Monnier]

>>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the
>>> default is taken from the desktop settings.
>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed by
> the Gnome people.  I guess that is logical, as they seem to move
> towards a customization-free desktop.  They decided that both-horiz (icon
> followed by text) is what everybody should have.
> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with

> % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both

> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.

I think we should mention it in our documentation.  And I also think
there's something more going on: when I try gedit with various settings
of /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style, it's clear that in both-horiz
setting, only some of the buttons get their text, whereas with Emacs
they all do.
That means that both-horiz is quite bearable with gedit but not
with Emacs.  And since both-horiz is the default, I think we need to
figure out how to do the same as gedit does (i.e. specify which toolbar
buttons need to have the text displayed in both-horiz and which don't).


        Stefan

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Andrew W. Nosenko]

On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 22:39, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>>>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>>>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the
>>>> default is taken from the desktop settings.
>>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
>>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed by
>> the Gnome people.  I guess that is logical, as they seem to move
>> towards a customization-free desktop.  They decided that both-horiz (icon
>> followed by text) is what everybody should have.
>> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
>
>> % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both
>
>> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.
>
> I think we should mention it in our documentation.  And I also think
> there's something more going on: when I try gedit with various settings
> of /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style, it's clear that in both-horiz
> setting, only some of the buttons get their text, whereas with Emacs
> they all do.
> That means that both-horiz is quite bearable with gedit but not
> with Emacs.  And since both-horiz is the default, I think we need to
> figure out how to do the same as gedit does (i.e. specify which toolbar
> buttons need to have the text displayed in both-horiz and which don't).

http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkToolItem.html
gtk_tool_item_set_is_important()
gtk_tool_item_get_is_important()
"is-important" property

-- 
Andrew W. Nosenko <andrew.w.nosenko@gmail.com>

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

We don't use Gtk+ tool bar functions to display the text because they are too 
limited.  Not showing text is not that hard anyway.

	Jan D.


Andrew W. Nosenko skrev 2010-11-16 00.45:
> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 22:39, Stefan Monnier<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>  wrote:
>>>>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>>>>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the
>>>>> default is taken from the desktop settings.
>>>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
>>>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>>>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>>> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed by
>>> the Gnome people.  I guess that is logical, as they seem to move
>>> towards a customization-free desktop.  They decided that both-horiz (icon
>>> followed by text) is what everybody should have.
>>> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
>>
>>> % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both
>>
>>> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.
>>
>> I think we should mention it in our documentation.  And I also think
>> there's something more going on: when I try gedit with various settings
>> of /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style, it's clear that in both-horiz
>> setting, only some of the buttons get their text, whereas with Emacs
>> they all do.
>> That means that both-horiz is quite bearable with gedit but not
>> with Emacs.  And since both-horiz is the default, I think we need to
>> figure out how to do the same as gedit does (i.e. specify which toolbar
>> buttons need to have the text displayed in both-horiz and which don't).
>
> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkToolItem.html
> gtk_tool_item_set_is_important()
> gtk_tool_item_get_is_important()
> "is-important" property
>

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Stefan Monnier]

> We don't use Gtk+ tool bar functions to display the text because they are
> too limited.  Not showing text is not that hard anyway.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.  To get back to my
argument: since both-horiz is the default, we should be careful to make
it work well enough, similarly to other Gtk apps, by only showing some
of the labels but not all.
Whether that is done by using gtk_tool_item_[gs]et_is_important (and/or
Gtk's toolbar functions to display the text) is rather secondary.
Of course, as a general rule, if we can reuse other people's code, it's
better, but indeed it's not always convenient.


        Stefan


> Andrew W. Nosenko skrev 2010-11-16 00.45:
>> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 22:39, Stefan Monnier<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>  wrote:
>>>>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>>>>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the
>>>>> default is taken from the desktop settings.
>>>>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
>>>>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>>>>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>>>> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed by
>>>> the Gnome people.  I guess that is logical, as they seem to move
>>>> towards a customization-free desktop.  They decided that both-horiz (icon
>>>> followed by text) is what everybody should have.
>>>> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
>>> 
>>>> % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both
>>> 
>>>> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.
>>> 
>>> I think we should mention it in our documentation.  And I also think
>>> there's something more going on: when I try gedit with various settings
>>> of /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style, it's clear that in both-horiz
>>> setting, only some of the buttons get their text, whereas with Emacs
>>> they all do.
>>> That means that both-horiz is quite bearable with gedit but not
>>> with Emacs.  And since both-horiz is the default, I think we need to
>>> figure out how to do the same as gedit does (i.e. specify which toolbar
>>> buttons need to have the text displayed in both-horiz and which don't).
>> 
>> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkToolItem.html
>> gtk_tool_item_set_is_important()
>> gtk_tool_item_get_is_important()
>> "is-important" property
>> 

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

I'm saying that that function even if called would be a noop. A solution is in the works. I don't understand the urgency.

   Jan D.

16 nov 2010 kl. 16:24 skrev Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>:

>> We don't use Gtk+ tool bar functions to display the text because they are
>> too limited.  Not showing text is not that hard anyway.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.  To get back to my
> argument: since both-horiz is the default, we should be careful to make
> it work well enough, similarly to other Gtk apps, by only showing some
> of the labels but not all.
> Whether that is done by using gtk_tool_item_[gs]et_is_important (and/or
> Gtk's toolbar functions to display the text) is rather secondary.
> Of course, as a general rule, if we can reuse other people's code, it's
> better, but indeed it's not always convenient.
> 
> 
>        Stefan
> 
> 
>> Andrew W. Nosenko skrev 2010-11-16 00.45:
>>> On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 22:39, Stefan Monnier<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>  wrote:
>>>>>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>>>>>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.  On a Gnome desktop, the
>>>>>> default is taken from the desktop settings.
>>>>>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
>>>>>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>>>>>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>>>>> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed by
>>>>> the Gnome people.  I guess that is logical, as they seem to move
>>>>> towards a customization-free desktop.  They decided that both-horiz (icon
>>>>> followed by text) is what everybody should have.
>>>>> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
>>>> 
>>>>> % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both
>>>> 
>>>>> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.
>>>> 
>>>> I think we should mention it in our documentation.  And I also think
>>>> there's something more going on: when I try gedit with various settings
>>>> of /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style, it's clear that in both-horiz
>>>> setting, only some of the buttons get their text, whereas with Emacs
>>>> they all do.
>>>> That means that both-horiz is quite bearable with gedit but not
>>>> with Emacs.  And since both-horiz is the default, I think we need to
>>>> figure out how to do the same as gedit does (i.e. specify which toolbar
>>>> buttons need to have the text displayed in both-horiz and which don't).
>>> 
>>> http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkToolItem.html
>>> gtk_tool_item_set_is_important()
>>> gtk_tool_item_get_is_important()
>>> "is-important" property
>>> 

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'm saying that that function even if called would be a noop.
> A solution is in the works.  I don't understand the urgency.

I'm not sure what urgency you feel.  But in case I was not clear, AFAIC
it just needs to be fixed before Emacs-24 is released, so there's some
time left (there's no clear release schedule for Emacs-24, but I want
its pretest to start before the end of 2011).


        Stefan

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Angelo Graziosi]

Il 12/11/2010 18.44, Jan Djärv ha scritto:
>
>
> Stefan Monnier skrev 2010-11-12 00.01:
>>> ** GTK tool bars can have just text, just images or images and text.
>>> Customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style. On a Gnome desktop, the
>>> default
>>> is taken from the desktop settings.
>>
>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome. I do remember
>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>>
>
> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been removed
> by the Gnome people. I guess that is logical, as they seem to move
> towards a customization-free desktop. They decided that both-horiz (icon
> followed by text) is what everybody should have.
>
> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
> % gconftool-2 --set --type string /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style
> both
>
> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.

Thanks for this informations. Meanwhile, I have fixed customizing 
tool-bar-style to 'image'.

Ciao,
Angelo.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:44:05 +0100 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote: 

JD> Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
JD> % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both

JD> Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.

Perhaps Emacs could provide some way to Customize this?

Ted

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

We do. customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.

	Jan D.


Ted Zlatanov skrev 2010-11-13 04.43:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:44:05 +0100 Jan Djärv<jan.h.d@swipnet.se>  wrote:
>
> JD>  Now you have to edit gconf directly either with gconf-editor or with
> JD>  % gconftool-2 --set --type string  /desktop/gnome/interface/toolbar_style both
>
> JD>  Other values are both-horiz, text or icons.
>
> Perhaps Emacs could provide some way to Customize this?
>
> Ted
>

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 10:54:08 +0100 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> wrote: 

>> Perhaps Emacs could provide some way to Customize this?

JD> We do. customize `tool-bar-style' to choose style.

Great, thanks.  Didn't see that for some reason.

Ted

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Chong Yidong]

Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:

>> BTW, I couldn't figure out how to customize it in Gnome.  I do remember
>> seeing such an option somewhere (maybe in gnome-appearance-properties)
>> at some point in the past, but I can't seem to find it any more.
>>
>
> There used to be an Interface tab in Appearance but it has been
> removed by the Gnome people. I guess that is logical, as they seem to
> move towards a customization-free desktop.  They decided that
> both-horiz (icon followed by text) is what everybody should have.

The trouble is that this means that only 4-5 buttons will fit on the
tool-bar, by default.

I observe that in Gedit, some of the tool-bar buttons are just icons
(New, Print, Redo, Cut/Copy/Paste, Search), while others are accompanied
by text labels (Open, Save, Undo).  This lets them fit more buttons in.
Other Gnome applications do the same thing.

If we are going to use text labels, we should probably implement this.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

2010-11-13 17:40, Chong Yidong skrev:
>
> The trouble is that this means that only 4-5 buttons will fit on the
> tool-bar, by default.
>
> I observe that in Gedit, some of the tool-bar buttons are just icons
> (New, Print, Redo, Cut/Copy/Paste, Search), while others are accompanied
> by text labels (Open, Save, Undo).  This lets them fit more buttons in.
> Other Gnome applications do the same thing.
>
> If we are going to use text labels, we should probably implement this.

I added a keyword :vert-only to tool bar items to do this and added it to some 
of the items in the default and Info tool bars.  Even with most icons being 
just images, the Emacs tool bars tend to be quite long.  Maybe clean out some 
items?

	Jan D.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Chong Yidong]

Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:

> I added a keyword :vert-only to tool bar items to do this and added it
> to some of the items in the default and Info tool bars.

Thanks.

> Even with most icons being just images, the Emacs tool bars tend to be
> quite long.  Maybe clean out some items?

We can remove "Save As"; in most applications this is considered rare
enough to be left to the menu-bar.  We can also remove the "Customize"
button.

Also, we should remove the print icon---currently this sends to the
printer spool without even a warning, which is a real nuisance if you
misclick and are visiting, say, a 10MB file.  We need to fix the
menu-bar item for the same reason.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Chong Yidong]

Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> writes:

> print icon---currently this sends to the printer spool without even a
> warning, which is a real nuisance if you misclick and are visiting,
> say, a 10MB file.  We need to fix the menu-bar item for the same
> reason.

I've just checked in a change to the emacs-23 branch to prompt the user
for confirmation before printing.

As for the tool-bar changes, you can go ahead and make them, on the
trunk.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

Chong Yidong skrev 2010-11-20 21.26:
> Chong Yidong<cyd@stupidchicken.com>  writes:
>
>> print icon---currently this sends to the printer spool without even a
>> warning, which is a real nuisance if you misclick and are visiting,
>> say, a 10MB file.  We need to fix the menu-bar item for the same
>> reason.
>
> I've just checked in a change to the emacs-23 branch to prompt the user
> for confirmation before printing.
>
> As for the tool-bar changes, you can go ahead and make them, on the
> trunk.

Done.

	Jan D.

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Stefan Monnier]

> I added a keyword :vert-only to tool bar items to do this and added it to
> some of the items in the default and Info tool bars.  Even with most icons
> being just images, the Emacs tool bars tend to be quite long.  Maybe clean
> out some items?

Just wondering: shouldn't it be ":horiz-as-well" rather than
":vert-only"?  From what I've seen in the few Gtk apps I use, few of the
buttons have a horizontal label, so the ":vert-only == t" is likely to
be a better default than the reverse.


        Stefan

Re: Emacs tool bar on Fedora14

[Jan Djärv]

Stefan Monnier skrev 2010-11-21 18.25:
>> I added a keyword :vert-only to tool bar items to do this and added it to
>> some of the items in the default and Info tool bars.  Even with most icons
>> being just images, the Emacs tool bars tend to be quite long.  Maybe clean
>> out some items?
>
> Just wondering: shouldn't it be ":horiz-as-well" rather than
> ":vert-only"?  From what I've seen in the few Gtk apps I use, few of the
> buttons have a horizontal label, so the ":vert-only == t" is likely to
> be a better default than the reverse.

The default should be based on how many Emacs tool bar items that will have 
horizontal labels.  I just guessed, I haven't done any research.  It is easy 
enough to change if that is what we want.

	Jan D.