From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David De La Harpe Golden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Selection changes Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 03:28:34 +0100 Message-ID: <4C411552.40003@harpegolden.net> References: <87ocea2ax1.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4C40FCEC.9030404@harpegolden.net> <87pqym2a4r.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279333730 12249 80.91.229.12 (17 Jul 2010 02:28:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 02:28:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jul 17 04:28:49 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZx8y-0005uy-6k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 04:28:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46340 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZx8v-0005sA-20 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:28:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34288 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OZx8p-0005rH-7c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:28:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZx8n-0008MF-4Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:28:39 -0400 Original-Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13]:40869) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OZx8m-0008MA-Vt; Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:28:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [87.198.55.208] (87-198-55-208.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.55.208]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden", Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK)) by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD005683FF; Sat, 17 Jul 2010 03:28:33 +0100 (IST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.10) Gecko/20100620 Icedove/3.0.5 In-Reply-To: <87pqym2a4r.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127473 Archived-At: On 17/07/10 02:02, Miles Bader wrote: > David De La Harpe Golden writes: >> N.B. that definitely needs to be _off_ for bringing emacs in line with >> other apps. If it's on, it means C-y inserts primary and pushes primary >> onto the kill ring. > > Why is that bad? > Shrug. It's not what other apps do, and what's more, emacs behaviour when both the x-select-enables are turned on at once is particularly strange (thanks mostly to x-cut-buffer-or-selection-value's desperate attempts to please) > I'm not arguing based on principle, but rather because I've been using > it that way (with x-select-enable-primary set to t) > for many years with many other standard apps of both sorts, > and it seems to work almost perfectly this way. Perhaps for you - but you, like myself, know what's going on under the hood. To someone who has only used Mac/Windows/fd.o-x11, it's plain bizarre. [Anyway, this is only about what the default should be, you can still turn on the option if you like it.] > In particular: > > * selecting some text in a cut/past style app, and invoking "copy" in > that app, should allow the copied text to be pasted in emacs with > C-y. > Remember that primary is /still set/ by "cut/paste" style apps that set clipboard on cut/paste, they still set primary on selecting text. with both x-select-enables on: C-y in emacs gives you clipboard for a while, until you select something else in emacs, which causes emacs to set and prefer primary, then it gives you primary for a bit when you C-y (or the kill ring head), then you go "wtf?" and select then C-c again in $app, and you get clipboard for a bit when you C-y in emacs, until you select more text, then C-y gives you primary, but then you C-v in $app and you still get clipboard, but C-y in emacs still gives you primary... i.e. emacs C-y has magically morphed (as far as the end user is concerned) from acting like $app C-v to acting like $app mouse-2. And then some helpful emacser turns around and tells a newbie "oh just turn on cua mode"! but what cua mode does is make emacs C-v act like emacs C-y. Since emacs C-y doesn't act like non-emacs C-v, turning on cua mode still doesn't make emacs C-v act like non-emacs C-v. *** So please, turn on one or the other of x-select-enable-primary or x-select-enable-clipboard by default, not both at once. > * selecting some text in a selection-using app (e.g. xterm) should > allow the selected text to be pasted in emacs with C-y. With x-select-enable-primary off but with the mouse-2 rebound, it can still be inserted with mouse-2 as in other apps. xterm itself, while IIRC still maintained, is not typically the terminal emulator that gets launched when a user clicks "terminal" anymore: e.g. in the terminal emulator I use (xfce4-terminal), out of box, Shift-Ctrl-C will copy to clipboard and Shift-Ctrl-V will paste from clipboard. (Same shortcuts work out-of-box in the KDE terminal, konsole).