From: David De La Harpe Golden <david@harpegolden.net>
To: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
Cc: Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com>, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Selection changes
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 03:28:34 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4C411552.40003@harpegolden.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87pqym2a4r.fsf@catnip.gol.com>
On 17/07/10 02:02, Miles Bader wrote:
> David De La Harpe Golden<david@harpegolden.net> writes:
>> N.B. that definitely needs to be _off_ for bringing emacs in line with
>> other apps. If it's on, it means C-y inserts primary and pushes primary
>> onto the kill ring.
>
> Why is that bad?
>
Shrug. It's not what other apps do, and what's more, emacs behaviour
when both the x-select-enables are turned on at once is particularly
strange (thanks mostly to x-cut-buffer-or-selection-value's desperate
attempts to please)
> I'm not arguing based on principle, but rather because I've been using
> it that way (with x-select-enable-primary set to t)
> for many years with many other standard apps of both sorts,
> and it seems to work almost perfectly this way.
Perhaps for you - but you, like myself, know what's going on under the
hood. To someone who has only used Mac/Windows/fd.o-x11, it's plain
bizarre.
[Anyway, this is only about what the default should be, you can still
turn on the option if you like it.]
> In particular:
>
> * selecting some text in a cut/past style app, and invoking "copy" in
> that app, should allow the copied text to be pasted in emacs with
> C-y.
>
Remember that primary is /still set/ by "cut/paste" style apps that set
clipboard on cut/paste, they still set primary on selecting text.
with both x-select-enables on:
C-y in emacs gives you clipboard for a while, until you select something
else in emacs, which causes emacs to set and prefer primary, then it
gives you primary for a bit when you C-y (or the kill ring head), then
you go "wtf?" and select then C-c again in $app, and you get clipboard
for a bit when you C-y in emacs, until you select more text, then C-y
gives you primary, but then you C-v in $app and you still get clipboard,
but C-y in emacs still gives you primary...
i.e. emacs C-y has magically morphed (as far as the end user is
concerned) from acting like $app C-v to acting like $app mouse-2.
And then some helpful emacser turns around and tells a newbie "oh just
turn on cua mode"! but what cua mode does is make emacs C-v act like
emacs C-y. Since emacs C-y doesn't act like non-emacs C-v, turning on
cua mode still doesn't make emacs C-v act like non-emacs C-v.
*** So please, turn on one or the other of x-select-enable-primary or
x-select-enable-clipboard by default, not both at once.
> * selecting some text in a selection-using app (e.g. xterm) should
> allow the selected text to be pasted in emacs with C-y.
With x-select-enable-primary off but with the mouse-2 rebound, it can
still be inserted with mouse-2 as in other apps.
xterm itself, while IIRC still maintained, is not typically the terminal
emulator that gets launched when a user clicks "terminal" anymore:
e.g. in the terminal emulator I use (xfce4-terminal), out of box,
Shift-Ctrl-C will copy to clipboard and Shift-Ctrl-V will paste from
clipboard. (Same shortcuts work out-of-box in the KDE terminal, konsole).
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-07-17 2:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-07-14 18:08 Selection changes Chong Yidong
2010-07-14 18:39 ` Jeff Clough
2010-07-14 18:53 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-14 19:02 ` Jeff Clough
2010-07-14 19:25 ` Yann Hodique
2010-07-14 20:28 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-14 23:51 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-16 1:31 ` Richard Stallman
2010-07-16 2:49 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-17 0:44 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-17 1:02 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-17 2:28 ` David De La Harpe Golden [this message]
2010-07-17 2:56 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-17 3:30 ` Miles Bader
2010-07-17 3:49 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-22 21:21 ` Drew Adams
2010-07-22 22:05 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-23 10:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-24 18:44 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-24 20:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-07-24 21:48 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-25 16:32 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-17 3:50 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-17 3:55 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-17 4:13 ` Chong Yidong
2010-07-17 16:55 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-18 16:24 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-17 10:50 ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-07-17 11:01 ` Miles Bader
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-07-16 1:00 Angelo Graziosi
2010-07-16 9:33 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-17 23:49 ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-07-18 19:28 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-07-18 22:39 ` Angelo Graziosi
2010-07-16 12:14 ` Angelo Graziosi
2011-05-27 16:25 Chong Yidong
2011-05-28 4:13 ` David De La Harpe Golden
2011-05-31 0:59 ` Taylor Venable
2011-05-28 11:16 ` Andreas Röhler
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