From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Clipboard interactions Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:53:33 +0200 Message-ID: <4C3C1B7D.6060702@swipnet.se> References: <10954D02-E217-49F3-8824-757DA34074AB@gmail.com> <83zkxzakr0.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqyva8ms.fsf@gnu.org> <87630n6odf.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <874og670l0.fsf@gmx.de> <87k4p257ho.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87fwzqyn4j.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87fwzp627r.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87pqysitfq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4C3B4A0A.1040900@swipnet.se> <87fwzoi18c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279007686 8646 80.91.229.12 (13 Jul 2010 07:54:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:54:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , Sebastian Rose , Miles Bader , Tom , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 13 09:54:43 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYaJZ-0001vZ-BB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:54:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53116 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYaJU-0000JM-TQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:54:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53484 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYaJI-0000CX-3B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:53:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYaJA-0003iN-B5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:53:41 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay-b11.telenor.se ([62.127.194.20]:42985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYaJA-0003hw-0v; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:53:40 -0400 Original-Received: from ipb1.telenor.se (ipb1.telenor.se [195.54.127.164]) by smtprelay-b11.telenor.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68C7C006; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:53:34 +0200 (CEST) X-SENDER-IP: [85.225.45.35] X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhA5AP+3O0xV4S0jPGdsb2JhbACHcJg8DAEBAQE1Lb4ehScE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,192,1278280800"; d="scan'208";a="104546635" Original-Received: from c-232de155.25-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se (HELO coolsville.localdomain) ([85.225.45.35]) by ipb1.telenor.se with ESMTP; 13 Jul 2010 09:53:34 +0200 Original-Received: from [172.20.199.13] (zeplin [172.20.199.13]) by coolsville.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 78F997FA05A; Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:53:33 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; sv-SE; rv:1.9.2.4) Gecko/20100608 Thunderbird/3.1 In-Reply-To: <87fwzoi18c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127150 Archived-At: Stephen J. Turnbull skrev 2010-07-13 04.06: > Jan Dj=E4rv writes: > > > If we are talking about copy/paste of text from Emacs, Xt would no= t enter in > > to it. AFAIK, the only place where Motif may be involved in Emacs= is > > copy/paste in the file dialog. All selection code in Emacs is pla= in X. > > Don't take the toolkit name too seriously. What I mean is that there > is a clipboard protocol in the ICCCM, and which does involve some > overhead. Doesn't Emacs conform to that protocol when copying to/ > pasting from the clipboard? If so, it should suffer from similar > overhead. Our experience is that the overhead is perceptible in 1 > Mbit network environments in some conditions we don't really > understand. Not frequent, but frequent enough that having the option > to turn off clipboard is useful for users who only need "drag button1 > to select, click button2 to copy". Maybe you are thinking of the section that talks about a special clipboar= d=20 client that always take a copy of the clipboard and retains it even if th= e=20 program it got it from died, like the KDE Klipper. The presence of such a client has no impact on the protocol itself, it ju= st=20 leads to a lot of transfers of data from Emacs to, for example, Klipper (= I use=20 Klipper below as an example, but the issues are generic). We have seen problems with this when copying a whole buffer, i.e. lots of= =20 data. Klipper may also do a lot of polling to see if the clipboard change= d,=20 but most X servers now implement XFixes, so polling should be reduced,=20 hopefully to 0. But Klipper and its kind are totally optional (I always turn these IMHO s= tupid=20 things off), and ICCCM says: "A special CLIPBOARD client is not necessary. The protocol used by the cu= tting=20 client and the pasting client is the same whether the CLIPBOARD client is= =20 running or not." and "The reasons not to run the clipboard client include: * Performance - Data is only transferred if it is actually required = (that=20 is, when some client actually wants the data). * Flexibility - The clipboard data may be available as more than one= target." Klipper can also be configured to collect PRIMARY, so restricting clipboa= rd=20 may be of no use. So it should not be up to Emacs to limit itself because some of its users= want=20 to run a clipboard client. Jan D.