From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:46:27 -0800 Message-ID: <4B54FE1A-8C4A-43BA-9DA4-5E83419B912C@gmail.com> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87ppbqb6s1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9x2f9me.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87a92uf8ik.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8761dif6ib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87k31xkue1.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87mw6tj8gp.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87sigifh44.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418582818 12311 80.91.229.3 (14 Dec 2014 18:46:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:46:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Richard Stallman , emacs To: "Stephen J. 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[75.165.96.95]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ra2sm7075025pbc.27.2014.12.14.10.46.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:46:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87sigifh44.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180103 Archived-At: > On 14 Dec 2014, at 06:20, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > chad writes: > >> Web browsers *that can run javascript* are far more capable (in >> terms of available functionality) than info browsers other than >> emacs, and have been for a while now. > > Only if the ecmascript has been written. True, but weve already seen both interest in doing so and moderately near misses in existing code posted to this thread. This seems like a fairly minor concern. More troublesome (at least to me) is the fact that the closest we get to such a browser in emacs is xwidget. > >> This sort of functionality uses client-side javascript, which is >> something of a concern. > > I don't see why that's more of a concern than "client-side Lisp". The > problem with ecmascript on the web is (a) licensing and (b) whether > you can trust the source. I would think that for Emacs's HTML manuals > the emacscript would of course be GPL, and distributed with the manuals. I might be wrong, but I believe that Richard is generally unhappy about software that the user runs without really being aware. It would be interesting to see browsers and javascript packages adopt a GPL-compatibility declaration, along the same lines as the approach used in gcc or expected to be used in an Emacs FFI. There are practical ways in which users can exert some control over client-side javascript today (GreaseMonkey, NoScript, and the like). The technical hurdles to creating a similar tool that looked for a GPL-compliance declaration and displayed it along with an easy way to get to (and maybe modify) the source code arent too high. The harder part, I guess, is the political effort needed to get web developers to use it. Theres a lot of library and framework use in that world today, which suggests that efforts on a few key places might provide good return. ~Chad