Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

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The current CVS head fails to build on GNU/Linux Kubuntu 8.04.3 with 
GCC-4.2.4, as follows:

--------------------------------
[...]
/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/emacs/src/xsettings.c: In function 
‘parse_xft_settings’:
/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/emacs/src/xsettings.c:318: error: 
‘FC_LCD_NONE’ undeclared (first use in this function)
/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/emacs/src/xsettings.c:318: error: (Each 
undeclared identifier is reported only once
/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/emacs/src/xsettings.c:318: error: for each 
function it appears in.)
/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/emacs/src/xsettings.c:320: error: 
‘FC_LCD_DEFAULT’ undeclared (first use in this function)
make[2]: *** [xsettings.o] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/build/src'
make[1]: *** [src] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/angelo/linuxports/emacs/build'
make: *** [bootstrap] Error 2
--------------------------------

Instead, it builds on Kubuntu 9.10, but the result does not look very 
good, in my opinion. I have attached the screen shots regarding a 
previous build (on 20091114, without xsettings, I think), called 'good', 
and the current, called 'bad': my opinion is that this has characters 
too light.

Thanks,
Angelo.

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Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Angelo Graziosi skrev:

> 
> Instead, it builds on Kubuntu 9.10, but the result does not look very 
> good, in my opinion. I have attached the screen shots regarding a 
> previous build (on 20091114, without xsettings, I think), called 'good', 
> and the current, called 'bad': my opinion is that this has characters 
> too light.
> 

It doesn't really say anything unless you compare it with some other 
application with the same font.  It looks like you have hinting off.
What does
% xrdb -query |grep Xft
say?

I'm sure Kde has some font-setting applet, what options do you have there?

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

Jan Djärv ha scritto:
> Angelo Graziosi skrev:
> 
>>
>> Instead, it builds on Kubuntu 9.10, but the result does not look very 
>> good, in my opinion. I have attached the screen shots regarding a 
>> previous build (on 20091114, without xsettings, I think), called 
>> 'good', and the current, called 'bad': my opinion is that this has 
>> characters too light.
>>
> 
> It doesn't really say anything unless you compare it with some other 
> application with the same font.

Obviously, I have compared on the same system: Kubuntu-9.10, i.e. with 
same font! only the source of Emacs changed! between 20091114 and 
20091117. Indeed reinstalling the previous build, 20091114, it looks 
better than current 20091117.

The build I did on 20091114 looks like other KDE applications using the 
same font (Konsole, for example).

On Kubuntu-8.04.3 the build of 20091117 fails as described, so I cannot 
compare anything.


Cheers,
Angelo.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Angelo Graziosi skrev 2009-11-17 18.38:
> Jan Djärv ha scritto:
>> Angelo Graziosi skrev:
>>
>>>
>>> Instead, it builds on Kubuntu 9.10, but the result does not look very
>>> good, in my opinion. I have attached the screen shots regarding a
>>> previous build (on 20091114, without xsettings, I think), called
>>> 'good', and the current, called 'bad': my opinion is that this has
>>> characters too light.
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't really say anything unless you compare it with some other
>> application with the same font.
>
> Obviously, I have compared on the same system: Kubuntu-9.10, i.e. with
> same font! only the source of Emacs changed! between 20091114 and
> 20091117. Indeed reinstalling the previous build, 20091114, it looks
> better than current 20091117.
>
> The build I did on 20091114 looks like other KDE applications using the
> same font (Konsole, for example).
>
> On Kubuntu-8.04.3 the build of 20091117 fails as described, so I cannot
> compare anything.
>

You forgot to answer my questions.  I can't do anything until you do.  Also, 
what font did you use?

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

Now I can build current CVS-head also on K8.04. Thanks.

I haven't any particular configuration, no Xdefault in my home etc...

Both on K804 and K910 I have done GTK builds (./configure)

To summarize these are the results.

K804
====
$ xrdb -query | grep Xft
Xft.antialias:  1
Xft.dpi:        96
Xft.hinting:    1
Xft.hintstyle:  hintfull
Xft.rgba:       none

With 20091114 build, 'Options | Set Default Font' shows Monospace, 
Regular, 10: the same I see with Konsole.

With current 20091117, 'Options | Set Default Font' shows Sans, Regular, 
12: very bad!

If with that option I set Monospace, Regular, 10, the result is 
*different* from what I see in Konsole or my previous build. And after 
this, recalling 'Options | Set Default Font' shows always Sans, Regular, 
12, i.e. it does not reflect the new choice.


K910
====
Similar results. Only

$ xrdb -query | grep Xft

is empty.

It seems that these new features added to Emacs, after 20091114, make 
its look a little bad.

Can I build disabling those?


Ciao,
Angelo.


Jan Djärv ha scritto:
> 
> 
> Angelo Graziosi skrev 2009-11-17 18.38:
>> Jan Djärv ha scritto:
>>> Angelo Graziosi skrev:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Instead, it builds on Kubuntu 9.10, but the result does not look very
>>>> good, in my opinion. I have attached the screen shots regarding a
>>>> previous build (on 20091114, without xsettings, I think), called
>>>> 'good', and the current, called 'bad': my opinion is that this has
>>>> characters too light.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't really say anything unless you compare it with some other
>>> application with the same font.
>>
>> Obviously, I have compared on the same system: Kubuntu-9.10, i.e. with
>> same font! only the source of Emacs changed! between 20091114 and
>> 20091117. Indeed reinstalling the previous build, 20091114, it looks
>> better than current 20091117.
>>
>> The build I did on 20091114 looks like other KDE applications using the
>> same font (Konsole, for example).
>>
>> On Kubuntu-8.04.3 the build of 20091117 fails as described, so I cannot
>> compare anything.
>>
> 
> You forgot to answer my questions.  I can't do anything until you do.  
> Also, what font did you use?
> 
>     Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Angelo Graziosi skrev:
> Now I can build current CVS-head also on K8.04. Thanks.
> 
> I haven't any particular configuration, no Xdefault in my home etc...
> 
> Both on K804 and K910 I have done GTK builds (./configure)
> 
> To summarize these are the results.
> 
> K804
> ====
> $ xrdb -query | grep Xft
> Xft.antialias:  1
> Xft.dpi:        96
> Xft.hinting:    1
> Xft.hintstyle:  hintfull
> Xft.rgba:       none
> 
> With 20091114 build, 'Options | Set Default Font' shows Monospace, 
> Regular, 10: the same I see with Konsole.
> 
> With current 20091117, 'Options | Set Default Font' shows Sans, Regular, 
> 12: very bad!

At first the font dialog showed just any random font the file dialog choosed 
to show.  Then we showed the previous font (if any) selected by the font 
dialog, and "Monospace 10" if no previous font dialog had been used.

Now we try to use the font actually set on the frame.  For some unknow reason 
Gtk+ has choose to invent its own font syntax that is slightly different from 
Xft/Fontconfig syntax.  So now we give the font dialog an Fontconfig name, but 
it apparently doesn't understand that and uses "Sans 12" instead.

I'll have to investigate, be patient.

> 
> If with that option I set Monospace, Regular, 10, the result is 
> *different* from what I see in Konsole or my previous build. And after 
> this, recalling 'Options | Set Default Font' shows always Sans, Regular, 
> 12, i.e. it does not reflect the new choice.
> 
> 
> K910
> ====
> Similar results. Only
> 
> $ xrdb -query | grep Xft
> 
> is empty.
> 
> It seems that these new features added to Emacs, after 20091114, make 
> its look a little bad.
> 
> Can I build disabling those?
> 

You have to put up with it for a while until I made a desicion on how to 
proceed.  You can always run the old version, or 23.1.

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Jan Djärv skrev:
> Angelo Graziosi skrev:
>> If with that option I set Monospace, Regular, 10, the result is 
>> *different* from what I see in Konsole or my previous build. And after 
>> this, recalling 'Options | Set Default Font' shows always Sans, 
>> Regular, 12, i.e. it does not reflect the new choice.
>>
>>
>> K910
>> ====
>> Similar results. Only
>>
>> $ xrdb -query | grep Xft
>>
>> is empty.
>>
>> It seems that these new features added to Emacs, after 20091114, make 
>> its look a little bad.
>>

I think the problem is that now Emacs takes fontconfig defaults into account. 
  That means that it uses hintslight (i.e. very little hinting).  You probably 
have set (or KDE sets) hintmedium or hintfull.

When I run Kubuntu 9.10, I get hintslight on all apps, KDE and Emacs.  I have 
changed so Emacs defaults to hintmedium if XSETTINGS aren't found, as is the 
case for KDE (unless xsettings-kde is installed).

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

Jan Djärv ha scritto:
> Jan Djärv skrev:
>> Angelo Graziosi skrev:
>>> If with that option I set Monospace, Regular, 10, the result is 
>>> *different* from what I see in Konsole or my previous build. And 
>>> after this, recalling 'Options | Set Default Font' shows always Sans, 
>>> Regular, 12, i.e. it does not reflect the new choice.
>>>
>>>
>>> K910
>>> ====
>>> Similar results. Only
>>>
>>> $ xrdb -query | grep Xft
>>>
>>> is empty.
>>>
>>> It seems that these new features added to Emacs, after 20091114, make 
>>> its look a little bad.
>>>
> 
> I think the problem is that now Emacs takes fontconfig defaults into 
> account.  That means that it uses hintslight (i.e. very little 
> hinting).  You probably have set (or KDE sets) hintmedium or hintfull.
> 
> When I run Kubuntu 9.10, I get hintslight on all apps, KDE and Emacs.  I 
> have changed so Emacs defaults to hintmedium if XSETTINGS aren't found, 
> as is the case for KDE (unless xsettings-kde is installed).

Now, the things are better, mainly on K910.

Emacs uses Monospace Regular 12, which on K910 has the same look I got 
with Emacs-20091114 (using Monosp. Reg. 10, though). On K804, Emacs 
frame is half sized! It shows 22 lines instead of about 40, as usually.


Thanks,
Angelo.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Angelo Graziosi skrev 2009-11-23 23.22:

> Now, the things are better, mainly on K910.
>
> Emacs uses Monospace Regular 12, which on K910 has the same look I got
> with Emacs-20091114 (using Monosp. Reg. 10, though). On K804, Emacs
> frame is half sized! It shows 22 lines instead of about 40, as usually.
>

Is the font the same size or is it halved as well?  Have you set how many 
lines Emacs should show or do you use default?  How many lines do you get when 
starting with -Q?  Do you set the font in .Xresources or in .emacs or similar, 
or is Monospace-12 default?

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Angelo Graziosi skrev:
> Jan Djärv ha scritto:
>  > How many lines do you get when starting with -Q?
> 
> 22, in any case.
> 
>>  Do you set the font in .Xresources or in .emacs or similar, or is 
>> Monospace-12 default?
> 
> It is Monospace-12 default: I haven't any .Xresources, nor .Xdefaults. 
> And with 'emacs -Q' or 'emacs -q', the result is the same.
> 

Configure your emacs --without-gconf, rebuild and check again.
Emacs probably initially gets monospace-8 (or something similar) from gconf, 
but then uses monospace-12.

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

src/ChangeLog:

2009-11-25  Jan Djärv  <jan.h.d@swipnet.se>

         * xsettings.c: Revert changes from 2009-11-23. Just use Xft
         defaults (bug #5025).

As I suspected, that reverts also the good news I flagged in:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-11/msg01101.html

What a pity!


Cheers,
Angelo.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

On 2009-11-25 23:22, Angelo Graziosi wrote:
> src/ChangeLog:
>
> 2009-11-25 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se>
>
> * xsettings.c: Revert changes from 2009-11-23. Just use Xft
> defaults (bug #5025).
>
> As I suspected, that reverts also the good news I flagged in:
>
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-11/msg01101.html
>

That is what I suspected also. You can do
% emacs -fn 'Monospace-12:hintstyle=hintslight'
and see if that is what you wan't.  Also try hintmedium.

If you aren't running Gnome, you should set that in  ~/.fonts.conf (read more 
here: http://www.fontconfig.org/fontconfig-user.html):

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<!-- conf.d/sub-pixel.conf -->
<fontconfig>
<!--  Enable sub-pixel rendering -->
   <match target="font">
     <edit name="hintstyle" mode="assign"><const>hintslight</const></edit>
   </match>
</fontconfig>

or if you wan't it systemwide, put it /etc/fonts/local.conf.

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan D.]

On 2009-11-26 08:01, Jan Djärv wrote:
> On 2009-11-25 23:22, Angelo Graziosi wrote:
>> src/ChangeLog:
>>
>> 2009-11-25 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se>
>>
>> * xsettings.c: Revert changes from 2009-11-23. Just use Xft
>> defaults (bug #5025).
>>
>> As I suspected, that reverts also the good news I flagged in:
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-11/msg01101.html
>>
>
> That is what I suspected also. You can do
> % emacs -fn 'Monospace-12:hintstyle=hintslight'
> and see if that is what you wan't. Also try hintmedium.
>
> If you aren't running Gnome, you should set that in ~/.fonts.conf (read
> more here: http://www.fontconfig.org/fontconfig-user.html):
>
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
> <!-- conf.d/sub-pixel.conf -->
> <fontconfig>
> <!-- Enable sub-pixel rendering -->
> <match target="font">
> <edit name="hintstyle" mode="assign"><const>hintslight</const></edit>
> </match>
> </fontconfig>
>
> or if you wan't it systemwide, put it /etc/fonts/local.conf.
>

The comments are from the file I started with, so they aren't relevant. 
  You can remove these two lines:
<!-- conf.d/sub-pixel.conf -->
<!-- Enable sub-pixel rendering -->

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

Jan Djärv ha scritto:
> On 2009-11-25 23:22, Angelo Graziosi wrote:
>> src/ChangeLog:
>>
>> 2009-11-25 Jan Djärv <jan.h.d@swipnet.se>
>>
>> * xsettings.c: Revert changes from 2009-11-23. Just use Xft
>> defaults (bug #5025).
>>
>> As I suspected, that reverts also the good news I flagged in:
>>
>> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-11/msg01101.html
>>
> 
> That is what I suspected also. You can do
> % emacs -fn 'Monospace-12:hintstyle=hintslight'
> and see if that is what you wan't.  Also try hintmedium.
> 
> If you aren't running Gnome, you should set that in  ~/.fonts.conf (read 
> more here: http://www.fontconfig.org/fontconfig-user.html):
> 
> <?xml version="1.0"?>
> <!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
> <!-- conf.d/sub-pixel.conf -->
> <fontconfig>
> <!--  Enable sub-pixel rendering -->
>   <match target="font">
>     <edit name="hintstyle" mode="assign"><const>hintslight</const></edit>
>   </match>
> </fontconfig>
> 
> or if you wan't it systemwide, put it /etc/fonts/local.conf.

I tried all your suggestions, but none of them work. I have tried with 
'hintmedium' and 'hintfull': same result. On Kubuntu, current Emacs-CVS 
is the only application which has a bad look, and this is not very 
attractive to new users.

Is it natural that a user does all this work (if it functions) to use an 
application?


Cheers,
Angelo.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan D.]

On 2009-11-26 16:58, Angelo Graziosi wrote:
> Jan Djärv ha scritto:
>
> I tried all your suggestions, but none of them work. I have tried with
> 'hintmedium' and 'hintfull': same result. On Kubuntu, current Emacs-CVS
> is the only application which has a bad look, and this is not very
> attractive to new users.

Then your fontconfig setup is broken somehow or you do have xsettings 
running.

>
> Is it natural that a user does all this work (if it functions) to use an
> application?

Yes.  Emacs isn't an KDE-aware application, so whatever configuration 
system KDE apps uses is not known to Emacs.

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

Jan D. ha scritto:

> Then your fontconfig setup is broken somehow

Perhaps, but it sounds strange that it occurs only in conjunction with 
Emacs. In any case, Konsole which uses same fonts does not give any problem.

I use Kubuntu systems since 2006 and KDE since 2000: never meet these 
problems and even Emacs21, on the old RedHat6, was better than current 
Emacs-cvs.

> or you do have xsettings running.

As I wrote, on K804 'xsettings-kde' does not exist and on K910 it is not 
installed.


Cheers,
Angelo.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Jan Djärv]

Angelo Graziosi skrev:
> Jan D. ha scritto:
> 
>> Then your fontconfig setup is broken somehow
> 
> Perhaps, but it sounds strange that it occurs only in conjunction with 
> Emacs. In any case, Konsole which uses same fonts does not give any 
> problem.
> 

... which is an KDE-application that uses a totally different configuration 
scheme than Emacs.

> I use Kubuntu systems since 2006 and KDE since 2000: never meet these 
> problems and even Emacs21, on the old RedHat6, was better than current 
> Emacs-cvs.
> 

You can still use the fonts you used then.

>> or you do have xsettings running.
> 
> As I wrote, on K804 'xsettings-kde' does not exist and on K910 it is not 
> installed.

But still you have Xft-settings in Xresources on K804.  Fontconfig will pick 
these up and use them.

	Jan D.

Re: Failure in building CVS Emacs [xsettings] and other

[Angelo Graziosi]

Adding:

[ -f $HOME/.Xdefaults ] && xrdb $HOME/.Xdefaults

to ~/.bashrc, with .Xdefaults given by

====================================
! ---------[ emacs ] ---------
Emacs.FontBackend:      xft
Emacs.font:             Monospace 12
Emacs.geometry:         -0+0

! ---------[ xft ] ---------
Xft*antialias:          true
Xft*autohint:           true

====================================

solves the problems!


Cheers,
AAngelo.


Jan Djärv ha scritto:
> Angelo Graziosi skrev:
>> Jan D. ha scritto:
>>
>>> Then your fontconfig setup is broken somehow
>>
>> Perhaps, but it sounds strange that it occurs only in conjunction with 
>> Emacs. In any case, Konsole which uses same fonts does not give any 
>> problem.
>>
> 
> ... which is an KDE-application that uses a totally different 
> configuration scheme than Emacs.
> 
>> I use Kubuntu systems since 2006 and KDE since 2000: never meet these 
>> problems and even Emacs21, on the old RedHat6, was better than current 
>> Emacs-cvs.
>>
> 
> You can still use the fonts you used then.
> 
>>> or you do have xsettings running.
>>
>> As I wrote, on K804 'xsettings-kde' does not exist and on K910 it is 
>> not installed.
> 
> But still you have Xft-settings in Xresources on K804.  Fontconfig will 
> pick these up and use them.
> 
>     Jan D.
>