From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: d-s-m default: Nil + explanation! Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:04:34 -0700 Message-ID: <4A08C7F4F2E041ED8DFB16AB53E04317@us.oracle.com> References: <87sk7pzqsp.fsf@ambire.localdomain><8739zps45s.fsf@mean.albasani.net> <87mxxw6c7b.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1269529786 17542 80.91.229.12 (25 Mar 2010 15:09:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:09:46 +0000 (UTC) To: "'David Kastrup'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 25 16:09:42 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nuogl-0006EV-MX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:09:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48489 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nuoci-0004cM-PK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:05:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nuoce-0004cC-Fg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:05:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=39318 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NuocZ-0004bJ-AG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:05:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NuocX-0004JR-Gy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:05:19 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet12.oracle.com ([141.146.126.234]:39572) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NuocX-0004JD-BS; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:05:17 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet12.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2PF570L012145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:05:10 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2PB9upH000329; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:05:04 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt017.oracle.com by acsmt353.oracle.com with ESMTP id 110721561269529475; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:04:35 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.212.177) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:04:35 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87mxxw6c7b.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Thread-Index: AcrL9KXxG8nytFghSV+4Dh7PGxsjyQAMSHOA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4BAB7BA1.00DB:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122658 Archived-At: > This proposal was basically shouted down with "I want > delete-selection-mode for all and won't accept less", and > with polemics of the "even the simplest editing" kind. Hm. You keep saying that. And you've tried to give the impression that it is I whom you are quoting, that I've insisted on d-s-mode for all. That's not my position, and it never has been. _No one_ has supported such a position. It's just another of your straw men. You are quoting no one, trying to rewrite la petite histoire, populating it with monsters of your imagination. And no one has shouted you down. Is it OK for anyone to disagree with you? My position is: I'm OK with leaving the default as it is, though I think it would help more people if we implemented Juri's proposal. I made it clear that while I think d-s-mode as the default might be a good idea, it is better to leave d-s-mode unmolested, as an option, and _not_ to make it the default, than would be to mess up d-s-mode in a misguided attempt to "fix" it. And I was clear that if lots of pain would be inflicted on users if d-s-mode were the default, then we should not make it the default. And: I think we've already effectively moved on, saying that d-s-mode as is is not quite the right default. I agreed explicitly with Richard (and others) that: If we change the default, we don't have to use `delete-selection-mode'. We could use something different for this purpose if it is more suitabe." So please stop with the straw men and crying victim. No bullies have shouted you down. AFAIK, your proposal is still being considered. If (_IF_) in the end it doesn't get quite the response you'd like, that's not because anyone has shouted you down.