From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 00:01:41 +0900 Message-ID: <49DE222E-4273-45C8-B0A4-8040E37D3EAB@traduction-libre.org> References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <6F55E018-B15E-42B0-8794-21F55BBA23D3@traduction-libre.org> <34E3289C-10EE-4A23-AEE4-80D984DB2EDE@gnu.org> <6A538FF9-94C8-491D-B1B9-5C0D09FE7C39@acm.org> <838suesw93.fsf@gnu.org> <3580dbb9-73a8-d26a-5466-5799e3726c34@gmail.com> <83tvd2rd8b.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_24048B0F-EC2D-4818-A863-ED160ACA9C58" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="154689"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 06 17:02:16 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hYtuB-000e4F-Bv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 17:02:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33609 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYtuA-0007Hg-3P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:02:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33881) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYtty-0007GE-UI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:02:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYttx-0007aS-65 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:02:02 -0400 Original-Received: from relay9-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.199]:49581) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYttv-0007TD-2x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:02:01 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 111.89.228.40 Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pl32040.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp [111.89.228.40]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay9-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF942FF827 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 15:01:47 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83tvd2rd8b.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.199 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:237288 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_24048B0F-EC2D-4818-A863-ED160ACA9C58 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 6, 2019, at 23:37, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Cl=C3=A9ment Pit-Claudel >> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 09:26:54 -0400 >>=20 >>> Why is it useful to have different behavior on GUI and TTY frames? >>=20 >> It's not so much that it's useful to have different behavior; rather, = there are limitations that only TTY frames suffer from, and if you = mostly or always use GUI frames, it's nice not to suffer from these = limitations. >=20 > That's not the same. C-[ being the same as ESC is very basic, Well, for some people, obviously not for everybody. My issue was understanding *why* it was the case. The history with ascii = is cute but really makes just as much sense to me as if I had to enter = unicode escaped sequences in emacs to be able to type Japanese. > like C-g, so having to remember that it might not work on GUI frames = would be a PITA at least for me. ? Which is not what I'd like to have here. What I'd like to have is some documentation about that issue in the = Emacs manual *and* a documented way to override that behavior on my = side. >> So I guess keeping a consistent experience in TTY and GUI frames = isn't as important for me as improving the experience in GUI frames. >=20 > IMO, being able to bind C-[ to something else is not an important > feature, not enough to break the compatibility. What compatibility would that break ? If I were to bind C-[ in GUI emacs = to something that I find more convenient than ESC in that position, how = would that break something ? > But that's me. That could be me too if you explained the issue in a more intelligible = way. Now I see that some things are explained in "Named ASCII Control = Characters" in the manual. That part definitely needs some explicit = wording for non nerds. Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune --Apple-Mail=_24048B0F-EC2D-4818-A863-ED160ACA9C58 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jun 6, 2019, at 23:37, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> = wrote:

From: Cl=C3=A9ment = Pit-Claudel <cpitclaudel@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun = 2019 09:26:54 -0400

Why is it useful to have different behavior on GUI and TTY = frames?

It's not so much that = it's useful to have different behavior; rather, there are limitations = that only TTY frames suffer from, and if you mostly or always use GUI = frames, it's nice not to suffer from these limitations.

That's not the same.  C-[ = being the same as ESC is very basic,

Well, for some people, obviously not for = everybody.

My issue was = understanding *why* it was the case. The history with ascii is cute but = really makes just as much sense to me as if I had to enter unicode = escaped sequences in emacs to be able to type Japanese.

like C-g, so having to remember that it might not work = on GUI frames would be a PITA at least for me.

? = Which is not what I'd like to have here.

What I'd like to have is some documentation about = that issue in the Emacs manual *and* a documented way to override that = behavior on my side.

So I guess keeping a consistent experience in = TTY and GUI frames isn't as important for me as improving the experience = in GUI frames.

IMO, being able = to bind C-[ to something else is not an important
feature, = not enough to break the compatibility.

What compatibility would that break ? If I were to = bind C-[ in GUI emacs to something that I find more convenient than ESC = in that position, how would that break something ?

 But that's me.

That = could be me too if you explained the issue in a more intelligible = way.

Now I see that some = things are explained in "Named ASCII Control Characters" in = the manual. That part definitely needs some explicit wording for non = nerds.

Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


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