unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-07-30  9:58 dhruva
  2008-07-31  1:59 ` Richard M Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: dhruva @ 2008-07-30  9:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel





----- Original Message ----
> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:47:30 -0400
> From: Richard M Stallman 
> Subject: Re: Release plans
> To: Eli Zaretskii 
> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15
> 
>     > In that case, does the fact that Emacs runs on Windows
>     > help you do these simple jobs?
> 
>     It gives me more opportunities to look at problems that are not
>     specific to some platform.
> 
> Sure, but it also consumes some of your time on Windows support issues.
> If you simply did your editing on the GNU/Linux machine, and did not
> pay attention to Windows support, would your contributions to
> the platform-independent capabilities of Emacs be less, or more?

Emacs is a great editor (and much more). Just because it takes some extra effort to keep it running on a non free OS (which has a significant install base whether we like it or not), please do not consider dropping the port. At work, we do not have the freedom to chose the OS on which we like to work. Since I spend most of my coding time at work, I have to use windows port of Emacs however much I would love to use Emacs on GNU/Linux. I have popularized emacs quite a bit on windows at work, this would have increased the GNU awareness among people working on non-free platforms. Consider this as a GNU/FSF evangelizing through tools like Emacs. 

-dhruva



      Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-14 15:36 Robert J. Chassell
  2008-08-14 15:51 ` Johannes Weiner
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: Robert J. Chassell @ 2008-08-14 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

    > Whether one loads proprietary modules into the kernel is a personal
    > decision and I don't like deciding for other people.

No; it is not a personal decision.  When you load proprietary modules,
you are telling those who pay attention that you do not mind restricting
yourself.

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                          GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         bob@gnu.org
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <SRV-ADEXCHyjlMFAVNL0000090e@waccglobal.org>]
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-13  1:30 A Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-13  1:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Mackenzie; +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> It has been known for programmers enamoured of the Windows OS to complain
> quite loudly at the lack of a "decent editor" in Unix.  ;-)

I heard this many times too.

The users (i.e. programmers) will choose almost always estetic editors. So this ideal must be considered in order to keep peuple using it.

The great ideal of emacs should be that all its modules work well.

This idea is expressed in one word (sorry, in one image) by IAS seal:

http://www.ias.edu/midcom-serveattachmentguid-f05347fcb97955f36a78b35d9ae6a202/IAS_Logo_for_%20Simonyi_Color.jpg


____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 20:51 A Soare
  2008-08-12 21:35 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> >>> In my case the initial hypothesis is true; the general case is false:
> >>>
> >>> 1. initial: X1 X2 ... Xn do not use Emacs
> >>>
> >>> 2. general: nobody uses Emacs
> >>
> >> Is not that extrapolation rather than induction? ;-)
> > 
> > Maybe, I do not know. Induction is surely.
> 
> Maybe this is not the place for math education, but you are missing one 
> piece to make it induction:
> 
> - There should be something that asserts that the condition holds also 
> for next step.
> 
> It might happen even to you that you meat a person who uses Emacs on 
> windows ...
> 


Sure , you are right . A good thing for you to do is to read my code of indentation and to help me document it better before installing it.

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2008-08/msg00437.html

*****

From my knowledge, induction has 2 steps:

1. prove that initial cond. is true. and suppose that it is also true for some N

2. prove using these 2 propositions that it is also valid for N+1

I quote: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction


l'induction est étudiée en philosophie ; c'est une démarche intellectuelle familière qui consiste à procéder par inférence probable, c'est-à-dire à déduire des lois par généralisation des observations. Par exemple, en l'absence de toute connaissance scientifique en astronomie, la plupart des gens s'attendent à voir le Soleil se lever le lendemain matin. Au sein du travail scientifique, et à condition de bien en mesurer les limites, l'induction peut trouver sa place. Par exemple, l'accumulation d'études monographiques peut conduire à formuler, par généralisation, des propositions relatives au changement social. Mais il ne s'agit pas là d'inductivisme, car les chercheurs sont orientés dans leurs observations monographiques par une problématique théorique qui guide leur construction des faits.
En mathématiques, en logique et en informatique, l'induction complète, aujourd'hui très souvent abrégée en induction, est une autre façon de désigner la récurrence : aussi bien le raisonnement par récurrence que les définitions par récurrence.


L'induction en revanche génère du sens en passant des faits à la loi, du particulier au général.


____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 20:16 christophe
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: christophe @ 2008-08-12 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 4:53 PM,  <emacs-devel-request@gnu.org> wrote:
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:37:48 -0700
> From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
> Subject: Re: Release plans
> To: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
> Cc: Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>, ich@frank-schmitt.net,
>        rms@gnu.org,    emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Message-ID: <48A1AE4C.2000301@emf.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Miles Bader wrote:
>> Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net> writes:
>>
>>> The more urgent issue concerns the emerging W3C-based world:
>>> what will GNU have to offer there?
>>>
>>
>> Hopefully, an alternative...
>>
>
> That's pithy but I don't actually get it.   Why call for an alternative?
>

Maybe the lack of freedom in today's Web architecture. In his
dissertation, Roy T. Fielding describes REST as an architectural
style. According to him, «examples of architectural styles include the
"null style" (which has no constrains at all), pipe and filter,
client/server, distributed objects and — you guessed it — REST» (1).
As i said elsewhere, internet is by nature a decentralized network, so
distributed architectures will prevail sooner or later... While I
appreciate your analysis and share most of your points, i agree with
RMS about the lack of freedom in the design of the web...

A Quote from Mr. Paul Stacey:
«Peer-to-peer systems have existed since the first incarnation of the
Internet. In recent times the Internet has taken on a more
hierarchical form, power has been taken away from the individual and
placed in the hands of operators of large servers. However, with the
re-emergence of p2p the individual is gaining more freedom. End users
attached to the Internet now have the power to host and publish
content through the user of p2p technologies...»
(Stacey, Paul, "Peer-to-peer searching and sharing of electronic
documents" (2004). Masters. Paper 9.)
( http://arrow.dit.ie/engmas/9 )

Hope this can help.

christophe

(1) http://mauriziostorani.wordpress.com/2008/07/27/rest-representational-state-transfer-and-restful-web-services-concepts-and-examples/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 18:57 A Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> > In my case the initial hypothesis is true; the general case is false:
> > 
> > 1. initial: X1 X2 ... Xn do not use Emacs
> > 
> > 2. general: nobody uses Emacs
> 
> Because your n is too small, obviously.
> 

Even for a great n, this reasonement would be wrong.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 18:54 A Soare
  2008-08-12 18:58 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 18:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> > 
> > In my case the initial hypothesis is true; the general case is false:
> > 
> > 1. initial: X1 X2 ... Xn do not use Emacs
> > 
> > 2. general: nobody uses Emacs
> 
> 
> Is not that extrapolation rather than induction? ;-)

Maybe, I do not know. Induction is surely.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 18:41 A Soare
  2008-08-12 18:46 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  2008-08-12 18:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]



> > From: A Soare <alinsoar@voila.fr>
> > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:37:22 +0200 (CEST)
> > Cc: "Emacs   Dev  \[emacs-devel\]" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> > 
> > > Yes, I understood that this is what you meant. But in what way did you 
> > > reach this conclusion?
> > 
> > By induction.
> 
> "Induction" as in "1 is a prime number, 2 is a prime number, 3 is a
> prime number; so by induction, every number is prime."
> 

In my case the initial hypothesis is true; the general case is false:

1. initial: X1 X2 ... Xn do not use Emacs

2. general: nobody uses Emacs



____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 18:38 A Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]



> > From: A Soare <alinsoar@voila.fr>
> > Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:21:03 +0200 (CEST)
> > 
> > 
> > I have never known in all my life a person using windows that
> > thought to use emacs.
> 
> I see them every day on my daytime job.
> 
> > So a considerable number of peuple use Windows, but (almost) never Emacs in Windows.
> 
> Not in my experience.
> 

I wanted just to express my *egocentric* experience.



____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 18:36 A Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> > Maybe, but what i wanted to say was that you mail program does not work 
> > ok. So perhaps it would be best if you used some other mail program.
> 
> Or maybe it is rather a bug in Thunderbird client? I can see now that 
> the lines gets wrapped in my reply, but I have trouble reading your 
> message in Thunderbird when I am editing my reply.
> 
> This is quite annoying. Is there anyone who understand what is wrong?
> 
> 

I correct you just a remark: I wrote the message using OPERA!

http://www.opera.com/

____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 18:04 A Soare
  2008-08-12 18:21 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> > I told you: everything depends of education.
>  > No, from my viewpoint emacs is better.
> > But in the same time I realise that from their viewpoint other editors are better.
>  > I tolerate their education.
> 
> But does not that mean that you say that your education is better? That 
> you have learned something that they have not (yet)?

The word good-best-better is a kind of recursion in nature.

To solve the bugs, I must add to the definition:

 "best-better-good can be applied to objects that belong to the same space. One cannot compare 2 objects from different worlds using this word. In the Kant's language, one says that our mind cannot find a common category in order to apply this word to that category".

If you take care about this definition, the loop dissapears. It reduces to discrimination. If you go on with further this discussion, you make discrimination. Everything is relative to this world. A fish cannot say that he leaves better than a man, and vice versa.

> 
> > Now I see. Voila.
> 
> It would be nice if you find a way to fix the line wrapping (and told 
> the developers of the software that is malfunctioning of course).
> 

You did not understand. The web site where I have my pretty and most lovely mail account add this banner.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 15:34 A Soare
  2008-08-12 15:59 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> >>> No, there is no contradiction in what I say.
> >> Are you sure? Didn't you say that the developers you know do not use 
> >> Emacs on Windows because there are better software for their purpose on 
> >> Windows? And didn't you mean that you trust them?
> > 
> > If you think at the definition of "good-better-best" from _their_
>  > viewpoint, there is no contradiction.
> 
> Yes, that is right. But are you not overlooking the possibility that the 
> software they use might be superior even if not making fast money is 
> your goal?

We are looping again. I told you: everything depends of education. No, from my viewpoint emacs is better. But in the same time I realise that from their viewpoint other editors are better. I tolerate their education.

> >> Note: It looks like your mail program does something that Thunderbird 
> >> does not expect at all. Thunderbird does not wrap the lines when 
> >> commenting on your text. Do you know the reason? (It takes a lot of time 
> >> that this does not work.)
>  >
> > I am sorry, I do not understand... :(
> 
> All the text in one paragraph stays on one long line that is not 
> wrapped. There is a commenting mark at the beginning of the line like here:
> 
> > Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html
> 

Now I see. Voila.






____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 14:34 A Soare
  2008-08-12 14:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  2008-08-12 17:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> A Soare wrote:
> >>> Quite so! Investing energy to develop it under Windows is (almost) loss of energy!
> >> Yes, I understood that this is what you meant. But in what way did you 
> >> reach this conclusion?
> > 
> > By induction. I do not use Windows, and in linux I use emacs for lots of purposes.
> 
> So you mean that for you personal benefits there is no use in developing 
> Emacs under Windows? ;-)

I do not say that for _my_benefit_. I say that in general almost nobody use emacs in windows. There are exceptions, quite so. But I have never seen exceptions.


> 
> >>> I know a few cases of _good_ programmers at google, microsoft, etc that never thought to use emacs.
> >>>
> >>> The reason: Windows has nicer environments to write C++, Delphi, C# etc. (that is what they told me).
> >> Then how can it be good to develop Emacs under any operating system?
> > 
> > In Emacs under Linux for Linux!
> 
> Did you mention any reason that I did not notice?

Personally I always use emacs, and I need nothing else. I tell _exactly_ what I heard that the others say. For me it is not useful under windows, and I have never heard a windows user to use it.

> >>> Emacs and Linux is used just by peuple that wants to understand how things work.
> >> Do you say that there is no use for Emacs?
> > 
> > In windows, yes, that is what I say. In Windows it is completely unuseful.
> 
> Then why is there a use for it under Linux? It seems like you are saying 
> that software under Linux is inferior to the corresponding software 
> under Windows and because of this Emacs can be useful on Linux.

No, there is no contradiction in what I say.

I heard many programmers that they prefer use under GNU Linux others editors. The same reason: they want to gain money easy in my opinion.

What choose everybody depends only of his _education_. Of his values. If you tell soebody "Emacs is written profesionnaly and you can learn looking at its sources" does not have the same effect on every person. The majority of peuple will say (I quote a programmer from gooooogle ) : "Yes, emacs is nice, but I do not like emacs, because I want to gain money, and others programmers will copy-paste the open source projects, and they will steal me the projects" . And he never used emacs.

In linux there are others C/C++ development environments than emacs that can be used without effort.

This discution is enless: the best is to put a button on emacs' page and to ask peuple to vote if they need emacs under windows, and the reason why they do.

> If that is the case why is it Emacs we develop and not something better?

I heard many saying that there are better development. If you say "emacs is written in lisp, so it is very customisable" they will say "oui, mais je peux me passer d'emacs et me debrouiller facilement avec d'autres."

> 
> >>> Windows is used by peuple that want to gain money and to arrive quiqkly at their purpose.
> >> Do you say that using Emacs makes it take long time to do things?
> > 
> > It takes little time when you have already learned how to use it.
>  > The first time when you did a thing, you will never choose something 
> different.
>  > Here is the point: the psychology. Peuple prefers never to make the 
> first effort,
>  > and they prefer to use something to arrive quickly at the point.
> 
> Can we use that point to do something actively? Can we make Emacs better 
> in a way that it satisfies those people's need? (Still not sacrifiying 
> other things.)

This is like demanding to a cannibal "do you want to become a chretien"? Not taking into account a famous tribe of cannibals that died because they lost their native croyance in cannibalisme, the question whether the user want to use emacs does not depend on emacs. But on his values in which he is educated.

So my answer is: this is not a question for programmers, but for educators and family.

> 
> >>> >From all my experience (all what I saw), windows interface for 
>  >>> > emacs is as important as the file ./etc/sex.6 in emacs' sources.
> >> Are you saying that this is the only part of Emacs that we should keep ;-)
> > 
> > Yes, Emacs in Linux is nice.
> 
> Why is the file etc/sex.6 so nice so that we should keep only that on 
> Linux? ;-)

From my viewpoint, all the modules for windows are _not_ useful, i.e. they have the same usefulness as this file.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 13:51 A Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> > That is what peuple does not like : to make effort to understand something that they can have without energy.
> 
> Don't you think that those programmers did invest quite a lot of effort 
> in understanding the software they are using now?

Yes, they did inverst lots of energy. But what was the purpose of their investment?

Evidently, in 99% of the cases, they wanted to have a good job to gain money.

To get a good job, they could pass of emacs.

That depends of the ideals of peuple. If you want to correctly choose the solution if it worth investing energy about developing emacs in windows, then you shuld investigate the mentality (the ideals, the value systems) of many peuple in many places in the world.



____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 13:37 A Soare
  2008-08-12 13:50 ` martin rudalics
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]



> 
> A Soare wrote:
> > 
> >> A Soare wrote:
> >>>>     Windows hardly matters anymore.
> >>>>
> >>>>     Windows is not growing much in functionality...
> >>>>
> >>>> Windows is important as a problem as long as it is non-free and
> >>>> considerable numbers of people keep using it.  It is clear that when
> >>>> you say it "hardly matters" you are thinking of some other criterion.
> >>> I have never known in all my life a person using windows that thought to use emacs. All persons that I knew and wanted to (learn lisp)/(use emacs) used linux or MAC OSX.
> >>>
> >>> So a considerable number of peuple use Windows, but (almost) never Emacs in Windows.
> >>
> >> What is your thoughts about that? Is there something to learn from it? 
> >> Is there something to investigate?
> >>
> > 
> > Quite so! Investing energy to develop it under Windows is (almost) loss of energy!
> 
> Yes, I understood that this is what you meant. But in what way did you 
> reach this conclusion?

By induction. I do not use Windows, and in linux I use emacs for lots of purposes.

> 
> 
> > I know a few cases of _good_ programmers at google, microsoft, etc that never thought to use emacs.
> > 
> > The reason: Windows has nicer environments to write C++, Delphi, C# etc. (that is what they told me).
> 
> Then how can it be good to develop Emacs under any operating system?

In Emacs under Linux for Linux!

> 
> 
> > That is what peuple does not like : to make effort to understand something that they can have without energy.
> 
> Don't you think that those programmers did invest quite a lot of effort 
> in understanding the software they are using now?

Friend and collegueas: yes, they had good marks at the faculty. They deposed much effort to learn.

> 
> 
> > Emacs and Linux is used just by peuple that wants to understand how things work.
> 
> Do you say that there is no use for Emacs?

In windows, yes, that is what I say. In Windows it is completely unuseful.

> 
> 
> > Windows is used by peuple that want to gain money and to arrive quiqkly at their purpose.
> 
> Do you say that using Emacs makes it take long time to do things?

It takes little time when you have already learned how to use it. The first time when you did a thing, you will never choose something different. Here is the point: the psychology. Peuple prefers never to make the first effort, and they prefer to use something to arrive quickly at the point.

> 
> 
> >>From all my experience (all what I saw), windows interface for emacs is as important as the file ./etc/sex.6 in emacs' sources.
> 
> Are you saying that this is the only part of Emacs that we should keep ;-)

Yes, Emacs in Linux is nice.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 13:11 A Soare
  2008-08-12 13:20 ` Juanma Barranquero
  2008-08-12 13:24 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 13:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]



> A Soare wrote:
> >>     Windows hardly matters anymore.
> >>
> >>     Windows is not growing much in functionality...
> >>
> >> Windows is important as a problem as long as it is non-free and
> >> considerable numbers of people keep using it.  It is clear that when
> >> you say it "hardly matters" you are thinking of some other criterion.
> > 
> > I have never known in all my life a person using windows that thought to use emacs. All persons that I knew and wanted to (learn lisp)/(use emacs) used linux or MAC OSX.
> > 
> > So a considerable number of peuple use Windows, but (almost) never Emacs in Windows.
> 
> 
> What is your thoughts about that? Is there something to learn from it? 
> Is there something to investigate?
> 

Quite so! Investing energy to develop it under Windows is (almost) loss of energy!

I know a few cases of _good_ programmers at google, microsoft, etc that never thought to use emacs.

The reason: Windows has nicer environments to write C++, Delphi, C# etc. (that is what they told me). I have never used Windows in all my life. I have been using linux for more that 15 years.

And since I have began to use emacs (2005), I use just emacs all the day. But at the beginning I did an effort to understand it. That is what peuple does not like : to make effort to understand something that they can have without energy.

Emacs and Linux is used just by peuple that wants to understand how things work.

Windows is used by peuple that want to gain money and to arrive quiqkly at their purpose.

From all my experience (all what I saw), windows interface for emacs is as important as the file ./etc/sex.6 in emacs' sources.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-12 12:21 A Soare
  2008-08-12 12:33 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: A Soare @ 2008-08-12 12:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


>     Windows hardly matters anymore.
> 
>     Windows is not growing much in functionality...
> 
> Windows is important as a problem as long as it is non-free and
> considerable numbers of people keep using it.  It is clear that when
> you say it "hardly matters" you are thinking of some other criterion.

I have never known in all my life a person using windows that thought to use emacs. All persons that I knew and wanted to (learn lisp)/(use emacs) used linux or MAC OSX.

So a considerable number of peuple use Windows, but (almost) never Emacs in Windows.




____________________________________________________

Avant de prendre le volant, repérez votre itinéraire et visualisez le trafic ! http://itineraire.voila.fr/itineraire.html






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-08-05  2:53 dhruva
  2008-08-05  4:43 ` tomas
  2008-08-05 21:48 ` Richard M. Stallman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: dhruva @ 2008-08-05  2:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Mackenzie, Richard M. Stallman; +Cc: emacs-devel

Hello,



----- Original Message ----
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
> To: Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: dhruva@ymail.com; emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 12:38:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Release plans
> 
> Hi, Richard!
> 
> On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 11:33:34AM -0400, Richard M. Stallman wrote:
> >     To be honest, I wouldn't do that either if somebody suggested it to
> >     me.  But if you did try this, you might then be a bit more
> >     sympathetic to those who percieve that type of software to be
> >     modern, efficient, and OK.
> 
> > I sympathize fully with appreciation of convenient software..  What I
> > refuse to sympathize with is the failure to appreciate freedom even
> > more.
> 
> Lots of people can't appreciate freedom because they don't understand it.
> To a large extent, they're people who've never suffered constraint, or
> haven't noticed it.  A mob of such people is dangerous indeed.
> Education, sympathetic or not, is the best thing here.
> 

From my limited understanding of the complex free/freedom in software, it attracts only the real hackers. Not everyone wants access to the source code when they cannot modify it. Not everyone is a hacker and cannot be a master in all tools and applications. I would love to use free software where I know enough to be able to make the changes I want and contribute back to the community. In areas where I know nothing but have to use something to get my work done, I really look for the simplest to deploy, use and cost effective (in the same order). From the philosophical perspective, I do understand and accept that embracing free software in spite of a functionally better proprietary alternative is good for the community. Practically, I doubt whether that is sustainable in the long term when it keeps coming in the way of getting my job done.
IMHO, what we need is real good organized paid support to free software where I can demand support for a feature I have paid. A slightly less restrictive licensing to paid users wanting to develop proprietary software using the free software. More corporates would then use free source than what is happening currently. At work (in corporates), people are just scared to use free source under GPL! Therefore, they keep using more proprietary software and building on top of it. Is it possible for FSF/GNU to setup something for paid users? I hope something comes out in the near future. Pushing free software in corporates would be a big step forward and that will attract larger user (and hopefully contributors) base.

-dhruva



      Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Re: Release plans
@ 2008-07-31  9:54 dhruva
  2008-07-31 22:01 ` Richard M Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 318+ messages in thread
From: dhruva @ 2008-07-31  9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Mackenzie, Richard M Stallman; +Cc: emacs-devel

Hello,



----- Original Message ----
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
> To: Richard M Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: dhruva <dhruva@ymail.com>; emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Sent: Thursday, 31 July, 2008 3:00:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Release plans
> If I were to reject work involving proprietary OS's, this wouldn't
> advance free software at all.  The only people to notice would be the
> people who expect me to pay their bills, and hopefully the Emacs
> development team would notice my absence after my Internet line had been
> cut off.  I suspect I am typical of most hackers here in that respect.

I completely agree with you. Let us accept that many companies develop software that runs on multiple operating systems. Some of us with windows background have to pitch in when there is requirement. I would love to work with the great GNU tools that I use on GNU/Linux on all platforms I am expected to work. Just imagine if I have to learn OS specific tools for doing regular development work, I would end up spending time learning the various tools instead of just using them to get the work done. Hence, the request to continue to make Emacs (and other GNU tools) available on a bunch of other OS (free or non free).
I work in India and I can say that we cannot demand to work only on a particular platform when you join a company. Especially in the application development, most companies want their applications to run on a whole lot of platforms. I am not a Linux kernel hacker to be able to get a good job where I can live and breath in GNU/Linux that can still pay my (and my family) bills. That is the unfortunate reality. 
 Just for records, though I develop on GNU/Linux, I still have to use M$ to access mails, ensure it builds and works on M$, for VPN and a bunch of other stuff for which the local IT offers support to M$ but not GNU/Linux! I have tried a couple of times to remove M$ and use on GNU/Linux but failed due to some internal tool not working on GNU/Linux and had to get back. It is sad but true. Same with the Mozilla Firefox browser. Some sites just do not work on Firefox (and Opera). To get the work done, you have to use IE or end up getting fired for not getting the job done.

-dhruva



      Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread
* Release plans
@ 2008-07-14 15:07 Chong Yidong
  2008-07-17  0:27 ` Juri Linkov
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 318+ messages in thread
From: Chong Yidong @ 2008-07-14 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Just a reminder: we will begin the feature freeze for Emacs 23.1 at the
end of this month.

The original plan was to merge CEDET in time for the freeze.  However,
this isn't going to happen because of a delay in legal paperwork;
hopefully, CEDET will be included in 23.2.

Emacs.app (the new Cocoa port) will be merged sometime this week.

As for Emacs 22.3, bugfixes made to the trunk should be backported,
where safe and appropriate, to the Emacs 22 branch.  This backporting of
fixes will carry on throughout the Emacs 23 testing period, so that both
the trunk and the branch can benefit from the bugfixing effort.  If
things work out, we can make the Emacs 22.3 minor release during the
Emacs 23 pretest.  If you see an existing bugfix in the trunk that you
think should go into the Emacs 22 branch, please email the commiter with
a reminder to check it into the branch (or email emacs-devel).

I'd like to request volunteers for going through the Emacs 23
documentation.  The Emacs manual and Emacs Lisp manual need to be
updated with the information in etc/NEWS.  If you would like to help,
please email me.

Finally, if you are a naughty person who has not added a proper entry to
etc/NEWS for your new code, please do it as soon as possible (or ask
someone for help).

Thanks.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 318+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-09-03  5:08 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 318+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2008-07-30  9:58 Release plans dhruva
2008-07-31  1:59 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-31  9:30   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-07-31 22:01     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-01 14:15       ` Frank Schmitt
2008-08-01 14:51         ` Miles Bader
2008-08-02  5:12         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-02  7:20           ` Frank Schmitt
2008-08-03  1:33             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 11:38               ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-03 22:42                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 23:16                   ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-04 15:55                   ` Davi Leal
2008-08-05 21:48                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12  4:48                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-12  7:30                     ` Miles Bader
2008-08-12 15:37                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-12 10:32                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 16:08                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-13 20:20                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 13:48               ` Nic
2008-08-03 22:42                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-01 15:31       ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-02  5:12         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-02 17:12           ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-02 23:46             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-03  1:33             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 18:01               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-04 15:33                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12  4:24               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-12 10:32                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 16:12                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-03  1:33             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-03 17:51               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-04 15:33                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-04 19:08                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-05  8:05                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-01 17:39       ` Davi Leal
2008-08-02  5:12         ` Richard M Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-08-14 15:36 Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-14 15:51 ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 21:00   ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-14 22:58     ` Johannes Weiner
     [not found] <SRV-ADEXCHyjlMFAVNL0000090e@waccglobal.org>
2008-08-13 14:07 ` Mike Rowse
2008-08-13  1:30 A Soare
2008-08-12 20:51 A Soare
2008-08-12 21:35 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 20:16 christophe
2008-08-12 18:57 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:54 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:58 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 18:41 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:46 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 18:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-12 18:38 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:36 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:04 A Soare
2008-08-12 18:21 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 18:25   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 15:34 A Soare
2008-08-12 15:59 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 14:34 A Soare
2008-08-12 14:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 17:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-13  6:26   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  9:20     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14  5:19       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14  8:38         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14  9:33           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14  9:49             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 10:04               ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 10:30                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 11:07                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 11:44                     ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-14 12:27                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-15 12:45                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14 12:39                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 13:15                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 13:28                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-14 13:41                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 17:08                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-14 14:30                         ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-08-14 18:00                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 14:18                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-15 17:54                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 16:29                         ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-16 10:40                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-14 10:37                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 11:24                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 12:54                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 13:31                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-14 14:02                         ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 16:55                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 12:45                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  1:41                           ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-17  7:16                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  3:41                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  4:04                   ` Sean O'Rourke
2008-08-15 20:12                     ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-15  5:08                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-16  0:08                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  5:14                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-15 17:20                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:39                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 12:05                       ` joakim
2008-08-17  7:16                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  9:32                           ` joakim
2008-08-18  6:14                             ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18  7:19                               ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-18  8:03                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-18  8:26                               ` joakim
2008-08-19 12:21                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 13:02                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-20  3:47                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  5:20                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19 13:42                                   ` Tassilo Horn
2008-08-20  3:48                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 14:20                               ` Gilaras Drakeson
2008-08-18 17:13                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 17:42                                 ` Paul R
2008-08-19 12:21                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  0:01                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-21 23:09                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 16:29                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-16 21:04                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 21:35                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-16 22:43                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-17  7:31                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18  0:01                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 10:18                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18 17:58                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-18 21:09                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-18 23:27                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19 10:23                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-19 11:56                                           ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-19  9:46                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 12:36                                         ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-20  5:55                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-20 17:48                                             ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25  1:34                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 10:47                                                 ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25 13:13                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 15:19                                                     ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-25 17:11                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-26  4:10                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26 10:59                                                           ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-27  5:00                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 11:37                                                               ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-28  5:42                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-28 10:17                                                                   ` Robert J. Chassell
2008-08-26 16:37                                                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-26 18:14                                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 18:54                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-27 20:33                                                             ` Paul R
2008-08-29  2:41                                                               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-29  5:34                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 11:39                                                                   ` Bruce Stephens
2008-08-29 13:11                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-29 19:23                                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 20:03                                                                         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 20:20                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-29 20:53                                                                             ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-29 23:24                                                                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 22:56                                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-30 19:51                                                                             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-30 23:07                                                                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-31  9:09                                                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 22:53                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-31  9:27                                                                             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-29 19:13                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29 23:48                                                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01  6:11                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01 18:25                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 22:32                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 21:57                                                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-28  0:10                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-29  2:40                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-29  5:30                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-27 22:09                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-28  1:10                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01  6:11                                                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-01 18:09                                                                     ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02  1:09                                                                       ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-02  2:18                                                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02 14:13                                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-09-02 20:48                                                                             ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01 18:20                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-09-01 20:17                                                                       ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-01 19:53                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-09-01 21:23                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-02  3:26                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-09-02 20:43                                                                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-09-03  5:08                                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 23:09                                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-28  0:22                                                                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-28  1:01                                                                   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-26 21:25                                                         ` joakim
2008-08-29  2:41                                                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 15:52                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-25 14:39                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-25 22:01                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-25 22:19                                               ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-26  4:54                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-26 10:02                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-27  5:38                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 21:06                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-27 21:12                                                       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-28 20:01                                                         ` Sean Sieger
2008-08-28  6:07                                                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-27 15:57                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-27 18:33                                                   ` tomas
2008-08-28  6:09                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-28  8:14                                                       ` tomas
2008-08-28  7:25                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-28  8:23                                                       ` tomas
2008-08-28  6:26                                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 16:31                                         ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-20  3:47                                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-20  6:14                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-19 12:21                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-19 13:04                                       ` Paul R
2008-08-20  3:48                                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  2:37                           ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-17  8:01                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-17 17:42                               ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-17 21:07                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-17 21:24                                   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-17 21:33                                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-17 22:31                                       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-18  3:06                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-18  6:14                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17 21:45                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-08-18  6:14                                 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-18 17:09                                   ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-19 16:28                                   ` René Kyllingstad
2008-08-20  3:48                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-17  7:16                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15  3:41               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 17:17                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:40                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16  7:14                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2008-08-14 17:24             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-08-15  3:41           ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-15 14:04             ` Alan Mackenzie
2008-08-15 16:35               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-15 18:07                 ` Thomas Lord
2008-08-16 10:40               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-16 10:40               ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 13:51 A Soare
2008-08-12 13:37 A Soare
2008-08-12 13:50 ` martin rudalics
2008-08-12 17:16   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-12 14:02 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 14:54 ` Paul R
2008-08-12 18:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-12 19:16   ` Óscar Fuentes
2008-08-12 19:41     ` Paul R
2008-08-12 13:11 A Soare
2008-08-12 13:20 ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-12 15:54   ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-13  6:26     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  7:05       ` Johannes Weiner
2008-08-12 13:24 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 12:21 A Soare
2008-08-12 12:33 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 13:42 ` Michael Ekstrand
2008-08-13  6:27   ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-13  7:14     ` Alex Ott
2008-08-12 14:45 ` Miles Bader
2008-08-12 14:56   ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-12 16:47   ` Drew Adams
2008-08-13 20:20     ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-08-12 18:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-05  2:53 dhruva
2008-08-05  4:43 ` tomas
2008-08-05 21:48 ` Richard M. Stallman
2008-07-31  9:54 dhruva
2008-07-31 22:01 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-14 15:07 Chong Yidong
2008-07-17  0:27 ` Juri Linkov
2008-07-17  6:41   ` David Kastrup
2008-07-21  4:49 ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-21  8:06   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-07-21 13:32     ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-21 14:19       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2008-07-23 20:52   ` Michael Albinus
2008-07-23 21:42     ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-26  7:39   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-26 21:33     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-27  3:22       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-27 17:14         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-27 19:14           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-28 21:46             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-29  3:12               ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-30  3:47                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-07-30 17:33                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-28 13:43     ` Juri Linkov
2008-07-28 14:10       ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-28 14:33         ` Juri Linkov
2008-07-29 17:11           ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-29 17:54             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-07-29 15:21     ` Roland Winkler
2008-08-02 17:34     ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-09 18:29       ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-08-09 18:34         ` Juanma Barranquero
2008-08-09 19:06           ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-07-31  2:10   ` Bastien
2008-07-31  2:43     ` Chong Yidong
2008-07-31  8:06       ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-08-01  2:53         ` Bastien
2008-08-01 19:26 ` Jay Belanger
2008-08-01 19:32   ` Chong Yidong
2008-08-02 16:12     ` Jay Belanger
2008-08-02  4:08   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-08-02 17:30   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-08-05  4:04   ` Bill Wohler

Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).