From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Eilert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Why Emacs should have a good web-browser Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:09:07 -0300 Message-ID: <485b0c380907211509q10baabbayaaa215f581e72c32@mail.gmail.com> References: <87zlb2bwyj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1248214172 12324 80.91.229.12 (21 Jul 2009 22:09:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:09:32 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 22 00:09:25 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MTNWU-0007r3-SY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:09:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41880 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTNWT-0001qr-Vf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:09:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTNWN-0001pc-Ar for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:09:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MTNWH-0001pN-SU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:09:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43648 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MTNWH-0001pK-M5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:09:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-fx0-f223.google.com ([209.85.220.223]:47041) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MTNWH-0001Y3-86 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:09:09 -0400 Original-Received: by fxm23 with SMTP id 23so983843fxm.42 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:09:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ldlpBqjlA5W7jhtQKbAzmHkm0WZcmu+7GfgM8qgc0pE=; b=MquAB7dtgIV5rSUC5ajK/8S7gRwpSQZ0vUVaBY3NcJSGFfMb8ExQSmFFKjGbs7XQER BZgvyltRgE+9dAPk3SrX53s5xrKu1iVCxa8k2JQx/4H7zZOvuZk1AxKLGZIhwvEwFvEh +cBkx4HWaJyLiYJU7KCA8xASpGQeucCDnOXXU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lC1l2AVHDs0r3/sxSloketvDJdZWxzj8Qmc7dS4arStNxH67ztq5Ntg3vnyyTq5Y+D Gjt6+PdLk/ObGp0rvLJJYQJzW+C69PtDGL7CZ8mvqAocDFnehQaU7nfovWTNROPPHlSV a25VTBOZpyTzVfP5StFCbXIcyifVELoVpDnOk= Original-Received: by 10.223.105.72 with SMTP id s8mr86562fao.9.1248214147820; Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:09:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:112959 Archived-At: [ Forgot to reply to the list. My bad ] On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Miles Bader wrote: > > Paul R writes: >> >> How about doing that the other way, that is rendering emacs buffers in >> webkit (or an other xhtml/css+js lib), making it the default rendering >> backend for emacs in graphic mode. It would probably cut off some large >> amount of emacs plateform-specific code and make web integration tight. > > Please give more details about what you mean. =C2=A0Emacs' display engine= is > not simple, and much code relies on its (many) features. =C2=A0It would s= eem > quit difficult to make it use a high-level display toolkit with very > different abstractions. I don't think there's any problem that Emacs doesn't look like a "native" application. The problem is that it looks like an "old" application. If you take screenshots from Emacs and Textmate, both with their "factory" defaults, Textmate looks *much* nicer (even though its window consists mostly of text too). However, my heavily customized Emacs looks prettier (IMHO) than the default, as does this one: http://ozmm.org/posts/textmate_minor_mode.html So, I think there are two issues here: first, better defaults. This not only includes CUA-mode (even though I don't use it), but also XFT, and the best font rendering we can get. Emacs 23 is close. But it also needs more in the way of graphics. Even though Emacs buffers *can* display graphics, their use is fairly limited(I see some icons in Gnus, avatar faces in twit.el, line breaks, and the speedbar). But these icons are small, not able to be changed in an obvious way, are bitmaps, and are ugly. So, we either need a better way to package graphics, as the preferred distribution method seems to be EmacsWiki .el script files, so a proper package manager. Or a way to create vector and bitmap images programatically (some Cairo-like elisp library, or bindings for Cairo itself). I am a developer, though I've only hacked my personal .emacs so far, but those are both interesting projects (package manager or graphics library). --Stephen programmer, n: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A red eyed, mumbling mammal capable of conversing with= inanimate monsters.