From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: longlines-show-hard-newlines - should not the default be t? Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:02:45 +0200 Message-ID: <485E2345.8060605@gmail.com> References: <485DA2E7.3010207@gmail.com> <873an6l098.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1214129301 3671 80.91.229.12 (22 Jun 2008 10:08:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:08:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs Devel To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 22 12:09:06 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KAMVM-0002EQ-7C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:09:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43245 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KAMUX-0000Uw-11 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:08:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KAMPT-0007tP-PJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:03:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KAMPO-0007sF-Uf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:02:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53465 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KAMPN-0007rs-3n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:02:53 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]:43801) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KAMPH-0001fG-St; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 06:02:48 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-59.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.59]:60803 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KAMPG-0008Nb-7U; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:02:46 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <873an6l098.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080621-0, 2008-06-21), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.145.59 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KAMPG-0008Nb-7U. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1KAMPG-0008Nb-7U 0b0751dac0dfde228b7af87d4c8dc896 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:99680 Archived-At: Miles Bader wrote: > "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: >> I think the default value should be t. I think longlines can be quite >> confusing otherwise. > > The current behavior is _exactly_ like the overwhelming majority of > windows/mac/gnome/etc text-entry displays: they treat hard newlines as > paragraph boundaries, but do not visually differentiate them from > automatically wrapped lines. [Though the difference is usually fairly > obvious because of whitespace] That is not nice, you are stealing my usual arguments ;-) I often get frustrated by the fact that hard newlines are not displayed in other applications. For example trying to cowrite something with someone unaware of this may be a lot of extra work. This has been addressed in word processors, but admittedly they do not show hard new lines by default. I guess however that this is because they normally have less technical aware users. > There are certainly times when one wants to explicitly show hard > newlines, but it shouldn't be the default. One reason to show hard newlines as default is that Emacs displays the buffer different when longlines-mode is on. It is then an analogy to the fringes shown for wrapped lines. > -Miles >