From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling Transient Mark Mode by default Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:01:50 +0100 Message-ID: <47BE02DE.2010006@gmail.com> References: <87myq4saw1.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20080219190127.GA1106@muc.de> <877ih0o9dx.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <85ablvftqe.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <8e24944a0802201130y1601cd6dvf22a8089e2de97f7@mail.gmail.com> <858x1fe6fc.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <8e24944a0802201241o4a2a70d0xb823b3fa27692bfd@mail.gmail.com> <87zltujk8n.fsf@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203650212 13950 80.91.229.12 (22 Feb 2008 03:16:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:16:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, wilde@sha-bang.de, David De La Harpe Golden , emacs-devel@gnu.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, storm@cua.dk, acm@muc.de, miles@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 22 04:17:15 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JSOPR-0003j0-Mr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:17:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JSOOw-0003jH-DT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:16:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JSKQx-0000EG-1E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:02:31 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JSKQv-0000Cu-0n for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:02:30 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JSKQu-0000Cm-0o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:02:28 -0500 Original-Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JSKQh-0005AS-Fj; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:02:15 -0500 Original-Received: from c83-254-148-228.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.148.228]:61441 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JSKQd-0004cR-48; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:02:11 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <87zltujk8n.fsf@jurta.org> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080221-0, 2008-02-21), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.148.228 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JSKQd-0004cR-48. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JSKQd-0004cR-48 cc3444c743f1a42bda8c8f96d000d3ac X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:07:01 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89927 Archived-At: Puh! This was a long thread with lots of details. After reading it all I think I agree with Juri, there are good reasons to turn on cua-selection-mode by default. It looks like Kim already have been travelling the road we are on now. It looks to me like cua-selection-mode/cua-mode does not disturb the use of the mark ring. Or does it? I do not use the mark ring myself. (Sasha? Stefan?) I have cut and paste some arguments here for convenience and added some comments: Juri Linkov wrote: > Deactivating the region without the bell is possible with > keyboard-escape-quit. > > But even this is not necessary: cua-selection-mode uses C-SPC C-SPC > to set the mark without activating the region (more precisely the second > C-SPC cancels the region activation). This is another reason to enable > cua-selection-mode by default because this will help people who use > the mark for navigational purposes. Juri Linkov wrote: > In cua-selection-mode point movement deactivates the region only when > the region was activated by shift-arrows. But when the region is > activated by C-SPC, point movements extend the active region. I think this could be made a little bit more useful without sacrificing consistency. cua-mode/cua-selection-mode activates the region with shift added to some commands: arrows/home/end /C-arrows/C-home/C-end and deactivates them if they are used without shift. This is how other applications tends to do it too. So this is good in my opinion. However when it comes to other movement commands I think they should extend the region since that is useful. If you want to deactivate the region that is easy enough (C-g, the commands above). David De La Harpe Golden wrote: > On 21/02/2008, David De La Harpe Golden >> Given apparent concern over mouse then keyboard interaction, maybe >> pc-selection-mode needs to also deactivate the mark when cursor moves >> after the _mouse_ has set the region... > > er... which cua-selection-mode already does... Richard Stallman wrote: > I am still trying to grasp the problem. Apart from the region to act > with CUA keys like in all main applications I use today I would expect > > * operations on the region should only happen when the region is visible > > I do not understand clearly what you mean. > > Are you proposing a change? If so, what _concretely_ is that change? Yes. A bit more consistency. I think for all commands for which it is useful to work for the region only they should do so when the region is highlighted, otherwise not. However I should add that some users seem to want to have the region active but not highlighted. That should be an option that they should turn on if they want it. Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Don't we all think that new users probably want the highlight the way >> cua-mode does it? > > Actually, in this respect, cua-mode isn't very different, as far as > I can tell: you also get into those situations where the region is > highlighted when you don't want it and you have to hit C-g to get rid > of it.