From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suggestion: Let the help command load autoloaded functions etc Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:20:23 +0100 Message-ID: <476BE7C7.2020005@gmail.com> References: <47696238.6050601@gmail.com> <476B7BA6.80903@gmail.com> <476B990A.80602@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1198254057 1672 80.91.229.12 (21 Dec 2007 16:20:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:20:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jason Rumney Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 21 17:21:08 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J5kcP-0002f4-Py for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:21:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kc5-0002ui-Ee for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:20:41 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kc0-0002qT-Md for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:20:36 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kbx-0002jj-My for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:20:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J5kbx-0002jQ-AY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:20:33 -0500 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J5kbq-0000v3-Jx; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:20:26 -0500 Original-Received: from c83-254-148-228.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.148.228]:60607 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J5kbo-0007Bp-7w; Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:20:24 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <476B990A.80602@gnu.org> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 071220-0, 2007-12-20), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Originating-IP: 83.254.148.228 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1J5kbo-0007Bp-7w. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1J5kbo-0007Bp-7w 8d329f053b8d95cde97bcfd435299984 X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85348 Archived-At: Jason Rumney wrote: > Lennart Borgman (gmail) wrote: >> Richard Stallman wrote: >>> Wouldn't it be good if the help functions loaded autoloaded >>> functions etc? At least I believe this would make it a bit less >>> confusing for newbies. And the penalty should not be big, or? >>> >>> These functions give information about Emacs. I think it would be >>> very undesirable for them to alter the state they are examining. >> But loading a library should not change the state of Emacs, or? Is not >> that one of the design goals? > > Of course loading a library changes the state of Emacs. At very least, > it increases the memory footprint. > What benefit do you suppose would be gained from doing this? A few things: - Argument list - Correct doc string - Links in doc string But, yes, one might think that the state changes are a bit too big. However this is the same state change is the same as you get when you customize something from the library in question. A little milder suggestion just because it is close to X-max: How about adding a link that loads the library, something like replacing [Arg list not available until function definition is loaded.] with [Arg list not available, _click to load function library_.] for an autoloaded function?