From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Policy issue in the VC manual -- recommending CVS?!? Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20071010204508.025F538032@snark> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192049212 19005 80.91.229.12 (10 Oct 2007 20:46:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:46:52 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 10 22:46:49 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IfiS5-0000Ul-TZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:46:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfiS0-0006d9-2j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:46:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IfiPw-0005RB-C3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:44:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IfiPv-0005Qu-Px for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:44:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfiPv-0005Qo-KV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:44:31 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IfiPv-000840-6V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:44:31 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 025F538032; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:45:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80535 Archived-At: The current VC manual recommends RCS for small single-file projects, which is sensible. But it then recommends GNU Arch or CVS for distributed projects, which is not, Recommending GNU arch is dubious considering Arch's poorly-maintained and poorly-documented state. If I'm not mistaken, Arch has been effectively moribund since about 2003. Recommending CVS is well beyond dubious into outright ridiculous. It's 2007; the many and painful problems with CVS have been well known for a decade and and it is anyway *well* past time to be flogging a file-oriented VCS to anyone on a distributed project. Anyone who thinks they want CVS for a new project should get either Subversion or their head examined. No recommendations at all would be better than these. Who decides what the manual recommends? If it's "the last person to care", I'm going to nuke these in a nanosecond. What I think we ought to be doing is recommending either Subversion or any of the modern 3G systems like Mercurial or git or Bzr. -- Eric S. Raymond We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. -- T.S. Eliot From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Rumney Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Policy issue in the VC manual -- recommending CVS?!? Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:14:18 +0100 Message-ID: <470D40AA.6020400@gnu.org> References: <20071010204508.025F538032@snark> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192050898 25188 80.91.229.12 (10 Oct 2007 21:14:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:14:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Eric S. Raymond" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 10 23:14:57 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ifit9-000696-9e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:14:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifit1-0005oF-4P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:14:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifisw-0005in-O7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:14:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifisu-0005ar-AU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:14:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ifist-0005aV-8Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:14:27 -0400 Original-Received: from outmail1.freedom2surf.net ([194.106.33.237]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ifiss-00061o-NX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:14:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (i-83-67-23-108.freedom2surf.net [83.67.23.108]) by outmail1.freedom2surf.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB2D50242; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:14:23 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) In-Reply-To: <20071010204508.025F538032@snark> X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80540 Archived-At: Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Recommending GNU arch is dubious considering Arch's poorly-maintained > and poorly-documented state. If I'm not mistaken, Arch has been > effectively moribund since about 2003. > I think you're mistaken. Savannah lists the last release as July last year. > Recommending CVS is well beyond dubious into outright ridiculous. > Like it or not, CVS is stable, and widely used. Its "problems" are widely exaggerated by adherents to the latest wave of version control religions. > No recommendations at all would be better than these. Who decides > what the manual recommends? If it's "the last person to care", I'm > going to nuke these in a nanosecond. Arch is part of GNU From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Policy issue in the VC manual -- recommending CVS?!? Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:20:03 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071010204508.025F538032@snark> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1192080128 31054 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2007 05:22:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 05:22:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Eric S. Raymond" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 11 07:22:06 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IfqUn-0000gS-I1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:22:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfqUh-0000K4-KK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:21:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IfqTr-0007pq-0R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:21:07 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IfqTp-0007nB-A6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:21:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IfqTp-0007mm-3Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:21:05 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IfqTo-0001Sr-SM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:21:04 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IfqSp-0004zA-Qp; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:20:03 -0400 In-reply-to: <20071010204508.025F538032@snark> (esr@snark.thyrsus.com) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:80582 Archived-At: Please just delete the recommendation.