From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 14:48:29 +0000 Message-ID: <4684f4312391906f6101@heytings.org> References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4056"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 23 16:49:46 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quwFW-0000qA-8s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 16:49:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quwEP-0000ss-NM; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:48:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quwEO-0000lm-FE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:48:36 -0400 Original-Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quwEL-0000VH-T9; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 10:48:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1698072510; bh=rGFAgfqbePmLX15Z2kqfG7zqZPkrV40DSJEzBa3rjQ8=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=PSGIqI0weN97cM1vzh/VvFheR7d+cQhF0aKHps0NvxS9pltJ0tO7sQkGwcNFcwlPx ES4wgzXBNXLeZfGH10ZB4FHecjjXrPxNk5m8aAXfxzKxiWvGGH+ArZZp9hvfIshl1n gyb2RrmimQf7ceHZ3STOyBfSiBILQsOvE3W6FYL7xAUY0i7FRP1m/3u4ttl1o1QeY2 E1qF/MEFjhNNcC2u1LvFe+PeEQzBoGnGcQeYt/fu5F+ea8/FeXuPtkzTyVslDuwqvk J00s8/PMWtIvZIQifCYJG+azc/ad6fqNZWC4ofXAKBJs/PuqIUUnFWnzhQpOhzLRkm Y9FRGzNb94grQ== In-Reply-To: <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.142.160.155; envelope-from=gregory@heytings.org; helo=heytings.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311718 Archived-At: >> Pretty much everything loads cl-lib nowadays, for example: > > That's not the issue, from my POV. the issue is whether all these > places load cl-lib for good reasons. If not, they shouldn't. > > Are any of these commands loading cl-lib without a good reason? > I don't know. I was only pointing out that the debugger is just one of the many cases, and not the most likely one, in which cl-lib is loaded. I was also hinting that it would perhaps make sense to preload cl-lib, given that it's practically impossible to use Emacs without loading cl-lib.