From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Post-22.1 development? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:54:17 +0200 Message-ID: <4668EF09.9020405@swipnet.se> References: <878xb05ras.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <864plnorgn.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <85ps4ap0kh.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <18023.8888.790251.607253@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <4667AAD8.5040502@swipnet.se> <18024.20333.913034.347754@localhost.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1181282098 22424 80.91.229.12 (8 Jun 2007 05:54:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 05:54:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, Nick Roberts , eliz@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Tromey Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 08 07:54:56 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HwXQv-0002qO-9C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:54:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HwXQu-0002A7-Gs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:54:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HwXQq-00029p-Ma for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:54:44 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HwXQq-00029d-0J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:54:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HwXQp-00029a-Tu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:54:43 -0400 Original-Received: from av10-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.181]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HwXQp-0004Dd-3b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jun 2007 01:54:43 -0400 Original-Received: by av10-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 3C8A338084; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:54:42 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.93]) by av10-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC64738024; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:54:41 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from husetbladh.homeip.net (81-235-205-78-no59.tbcn.telia.com [81.235.205.78]) by smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A105537E47; Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:54:41 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (X11/20070326) In-Reply-To: <18024.20333.913034.347754@localhost.localdomain> X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:72455 Archived-At: Tom Tromey skrev: >>>>>> "Jan" =3D=3D Jan Dj=E4rv writes: >=20 > Jan> - Printing, basically Emacs does not have a "modern" print dialog. >=20 > I thought the comment here was just about using the wrong program to > access printing. But, I'm not an expert here. Neither am I. The comments weren't detailed. But by using the gnome pri= nting=20 code, I guess Emacs would automatically use the right program. >=20 > Jan> - Fonts, AA fonts and respecting the fonts selected by the user > Jan> in his desktop preferences, including switching fonts on the fly > Jan> when the user changes his preferences. A font dialog chooser is > Jan> missing. >=20 > Here I thought the problem was Emacs using some old font infrastructure= . If you consider non-AA fonts the old infrastructure (i.e. basic X11), so = yes.=20 But I don't think X11 will suddenly drop all its fonts and the related=20 library calls. Emacs uses plain X11, I don't see why it is such a pain t= o=20 maintain that. There must be other programs besides Emacs that uses that= . >=20 > Jan> - Session management. We have that now in 22.1, but Emacs does > Jan> not restore the frame layout as it was. >=20 > IMO -- don't bother with this. The Gnome trend is away from session > management anyhow. >=20 Okay, good to know. >=20 > In general my understanding of the issue from the Fedora POV is that > keeping some old infrastructure (old fonts, old print subsystem, > whatever) around is a pain. Whether or not Emacs looks "Gnome-like" > is not really a distro issue. So the issue is, make sure Emacs is > using the current blessed technology. As you may have noticed, an Emacs release takes time, and in that time th= e=20 blessed technology may have changed several times (like printing). But a= ny=20 printing technology that doesn't offer a plain lpr command is severly bro= ken IMHO. >=20 > While I think in some cases better desktop integration is nice, Emacs > is also unusual and it doesn't always make sense to try to make it fit > in. I suppose this is the "old time Emacs user" approach :) Emacs is multiplatform, whereas Gnome isn't. Emacs has as a goal to be u= seful=20 without Gnome. There is a conflict here. >=20 >=20 > That said, there are a couple desktop integration areas I'm interested > in: >=20 > * Notification area support. I have a hacked zenity that does most of > what I want -- albeit poorly. Direct support in Emacs would be much > better. >=20 What would you think Emacs should do in the notification area? Mail=20 notification from GNUS and such, or just accessable from elisp? > * Keyring support. I have some code for this (supporting either the > Gnome keyring or a private Emacs-specific one), but I haven't wired > it in to all the code in Emacs that uses passwords. That would be nice, it could be handy for Tramp and such. But I don't th= ink=20 passwords are handeled in a central place in Emacs yet. Something to wor= k on. Jan D.