From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:51:48 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177512954 2782 80.91.229.12 (25 Apr 2007 14:55:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:55:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Kevin Ryde Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 25 16:55:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HgiuL-0003nM-DO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:55:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgizx-0003dH-Ay for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:01:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgiyk-00036e-Nz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:00:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgiyi-00035w-My for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:00:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgiyi-00035m-AG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgit4-0001k8-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:54:30 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HgiqS-0003M4-5O; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:51:48 -0400 In-reply-to: <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> (message from Kevin Ryde on Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:20:03 +1000) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70104 Archived-At: What do people think of this method of fixing the problem? It will allow moving certain patterns from `magic-mode-alist' to `file-start-mode-alist', but only those we need to move. *** files.el 23 Apr 2007 17:14:10 -0400 1.896 --- files.el 24 Apr 2007 23:47:25 -0400 *************** *** 2151,2158 **** \"allow `auto-mode-alist' to decide for these files.\")") (put 'magic-mode-alist 'risky-local-variable t) (defvar magic-mode-regexp-match-limit 4000 ! "Upper limit on `magic-mode-alist' regexp matches.") (defun set-auto-mode (&optional keep-mode-if-same) "Select major mode appropriate for current buffer. --- 2151,2171 ---- \"allow `auto-mode-alist' to decide for these files.\")") (put 'magic-mode-alist 'risky-local-variable t) + (defvar file-start-mode-alist + nil + "Like `magic-mode-alist' but has lower priority than `auto-mode-alist'. + Each element looks like (REGEXP . FUNCTION) or (MATCH-FUNCTION . FUNCTION). + After visiting a file, if REGEXP matches the text at the beginning of the + buffer, or calling MATCH-FUNCTION returns non-nil, `normal-mode' will + call FUNCTION, provided that `magic-mode-alist' and `auto-mode-alist' + have not specified a mode for this file. + + If FUNCTION is nil, then it is not called.") + (put 'file-start-mode-alist 'risky-local-variable t) + (defvar magic-mode-regexp-match-limit 4000 ! "Upper limit on `magic-mode-alist' regexp matches. ! Also applies to `file-start-mode-alist'.") (defun set-auto-mode (&optional keep-mode-if-same) "Select major mode appropriate for current buffer. *************** *** 2207,2216 **** (or (set-auto-mode-0 mode keep-mode-if-same) ;; continuing would call minor modes again, toggling them off (throw 'nop nil)))))) (unless done - ;; If we didn't, look for an interpreter specified in the first line. - ;; As a special case, allow for things like "#!/bin/env perl", which - ;; finds the interpreter anywhere in $PATH. (setq mode (save-excursion (goto-char (point-min)) (if (looking-at auto-mode-interpreter-regexp) --- 2220,2229 ---- (or (set-auto-mode-0 mode keep-mode-if-same) ;; continuing would call minor modes again, toggling them off (throw 'nop nil)))))) + ;; If we didn't, look for an interpreter specified in the first line. + ;; As a special case, allow for things like "#!/bin/env perl", which + ;; finds the interpreter anywhere in $PATH. (unless done (setq mode (save-excursion (goto-char (point-min)) (if (looking-at auto-mode-interpreter-regexp) *************** *** 2223,2229 **** ;; If we found an interpreter mode to use, invoke it now. (if done (set-auto-mode-0 (cdr done) keep-mode-if-same))) ! ;; If we didn't, match the buffer beginning against magic-mode-alist. (unless done (if (setq done (save-excursion (goto-char (point-min)) --- 2236,2242 ---- ;; If we found an interpreter mode to use, invoke it now. (if done (set-auto-mode-0 (cdr done) keep-mode-if-same))) ! ;; Next try matching the buffer beginning against magic-mode-alist. (unless done (if (setq done (save-excursion (goto-char (point-min)) *************** *** 2236,2274 **** (if (functionp re) (funcall re) (looking-at re))))))) ! (set-auto-mode-0 done keep-mode-if-same) ! ;; Compare the filename against the entries in auto-mode-alist. ! (if buffer-file-name ! (let ((name buffer-file-name)) ! ;; Remove backup-suffixes from file name. ! (setq name (file-name-sans-versions name)) ! (while name ! ;; Find first matching alist entry. ! (setq mode ! (if (memq system-type '(vax-vms windows-nt cygwin)) ! ;; System is case-insensitive. ! (let ((case-fold-search t)) ! (assoc-default name auto-mode-alist ! 'string-match)) ! ;; System is case-sensitive. ! (or ! ;; First match case-sensitively. ! (let ((case-fold-search nil)) ! (assoc-default name auto-mode-alist ! 'string-match)) ! ;; Fallback to case-insensitive match. ! (and auto-mode-case-fold ! (let ((case-fold-search t)) ! (assoc-default name auto-mode-alist ! 'string-match)))))) ! (if (and mode ! (consp mode) ! (cadr mode)) ! (setq mode (car mode) ! name (substring name 0 (match-beginning 0))) ! (setq name)) ! (when mode ! (set-auto-mode-0 mode keep-mode-if-same))))))))) ;; When `keep-mode-if-same' is set, we are working on behalf of ;; set-visited-file-name. In that case, if the major mode specified is the --- 2249,2303 ---- (if (functionp re) (funcall re) (looking-at re))))))) ! (set-auto-mode-0 done keep-mode-if-same))) ! ;; Next compare the filename against the entries in auto-mode-alist. ! (unless done ! (if buffer-file-name ! (let ((name buffer-file-name)) ! ;; Remove backup-suffixes from file name. ! (setq name (file-name-sans-versions name)) ! (while name ! ;; Find first matching alist entry. ! (setq mode ! (if (memq system-type '(vax-vms windows-nt cygwin)) ! ;; System is case-insensitive. ! (let ((case-fold-search t)) ! (assoc-default name auto-mode-alist ! 'string-match)) ! ;; System is case-sensitive. ! (or ! ;; First match case-sensitively. ! (let ((case-fold-search nil)) ! (assoc-default name auto-mode-alist ! 'string-match)) ! ;; Fallback to case-insensitive match. ! (and auto-mode-case-fold ! (let ((case-fold-search t)) ! (assoc-default name auto-mode-alist ! 'string-match)))))) ! (if (and mode ! (consp mode) ! (cadr mode)) ! (setq mode (car mode) ! name (substring name 0 (match-beginning 0))) ! (setq name)) ! (when mode ! (set-auto-mode-0 mode keep-mode-if-same) ! (setq done t)))))) ! ;; Next try matching the buffer beginning against file-start-mode-alist. ! (unless done ! (if (setq done (save-excursion ! (goto-char (point-min)) ! (save-restriction ! (narrow-to-region (point-min) ! (min (point-max) ! (+ (point-min) magic-mode-regexp-match-limit))) ! (assoc-default nil file-start-mode-alist ! (lambda (re dummy) ! (if (functionp re) ! (funcall re) ! (looking-at re))))))) ! (set-auto-mode-0 done keep-mode-if-same))))) ;; When `keep-mode-if-same' is set, we are working on behalf of ;; set-visited-file-name. In that case, if the major mode specified is the From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:36:56 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177522642 17302 80.91.229.12 (25 Apr 2007 17:37:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:37:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kevin Ryde , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 25 19:37:16 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HglQZ-0000h1-0d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:37:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HglW7-0002ZL-D3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:42:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HglW4-0002XA-5a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:42:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HglVz-0002Os-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:42:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HglVz-0002Og-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:42:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mercure.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.24.67]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HglQK-0008HR-B8; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:37:00 -0400 Original-Received: from hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.27.50]) by mercure.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96582CF417; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from faina.iro.umontreal.ca (faina.iro.umontreal.ca [132.204.26.177]) by hidalgo.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9263FE0; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by faina.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B0E2D6C80A; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:36:56 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed\, 25 Apr 2007 10\:51\:48 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.94 (gnu/linux) X-DIRO-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-DIRO-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-DIRO-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-2.82, requis 5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -2.82) X-DIRO-MailScanner-From: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70116 Archived-At: > What do people think of this method of fixing the problem? > It will allow moving certain patterns from `magic-mode-alist' > to `file-start-mode-alist', but only those we need to move. Sounds good to me. I'd rather call it `magic-default-mode-alist, or something like that (afer all, the match-function might look at some other part than the "file start"), but it's really not important compared to the need to reduce the priority of several of the entries from magic-mode-alist. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:18:05 +0200 Message-ID: <462F9B5D.10201@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177525150 26798 80.91.229.12 (25 Apr 2007 18:19:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:19:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kevin Ryde , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 25 20:19:03 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hgm4y-0002rV-HQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:19:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgmAc-0000xC-Dv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:24:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HgmAZ-0000vi-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:24:47 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HgmAX-0000u1-Sy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:24:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgmAX-0000tt-Nb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:24:45 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgm4s-0005j0-2H; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:18:54 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:60287 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgm4q-0008MV-4c; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:18:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-0, 2007-04-25), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1Hgm4q-0008MV-4c. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1Hgm4q-0008MV-4c 5ff23b6d4943ecb57ee265b1838b021b X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70119 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier wrote: >> What do people think of this method of fixing the problem? >> It will allow moving certain patterns from `magic-mode-alist' >> to `file-start-mode-alist', but only those we need to move. > > Sounds good to me. I'd rather call it `magic-default-mode-alist, or > something like that (afer all, the match-function might look at some other > part than the "file start"), but it's really not important compared to the > need to reduce the priority of several of the entries from magic-mode-alist. I agree with Stefan here. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Glenn Morris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:11:02 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177560839 4612 80.91.229.12 (26 Apr 2007 04:13:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 04:13:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Kevin Ryde , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 26 06:13:52 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HgvMe-0007OO-H5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 06:13:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgvSL-0004LK-9e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:19:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HgvSJ-0004LF-64 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:19:43 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HgvSH-0004L3-AI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:19:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgvSH-0004L0-6s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:19:41 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HgvMZ-0005Ku-L3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:13:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HgvJu-0002T2-S9; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:11:02 -0400 X-Spook: freedom MD4 virus CIDA IDEA Juiliett Class Submarine ANC X-Ran: qWQ1;{XZuv~+Yk:sl=Hu|HZw+I3gmG15g<~r&R>1:S/:o%{~jsNg$4ej~MZ,HKI)e!dg#) X-Hue: cyan X-Attribution: GM In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:51:48 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70152 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: > What do people think of this method of fixing the problem? It will > allow moving certain patterns from `magic-mode-alist' to > `file-start-mode-alist', but only those we need to move. I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are selected, another pretest will be needed. "When will you make an end?" From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:59:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177653904 15642 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 06:05:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 08:05:02 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhJZk-0002CX-9b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:05:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJfY-0007me-KE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:11:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJd1-0006L8-Bt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJcz-0006Jl-68 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJcy-0006JP-H0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhJX9-0008HK-6t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:02:19 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhJUS-0003SX-Gh; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:59:32 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:11:02 -0400) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70224 Archived-At: I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are selected, another pretest will be needed. Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about 20 lines. But I agree we should make one more pretest. This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:59:45 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177653951 15725 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 06:05:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:05:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 08:05:47 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhJaE-0002Ke-Ah for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:05:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJg2-00081c-Js for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:11:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJdA-0006Rs-0W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:32 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJd9-0006RD-3W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhJd8-0006R4-UQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:08:30 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhJXJ-0008Jk-Oe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:02:29 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhJUf-0003UX-2v; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:59:45 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:36:56 -0400) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70225 Archived-At: > What do people think of this method of fixing the problem? > It will allow moving certain patterns from `magic-mode-alist' > to `file-start-mode-alist', but only those we need to move. Sounds good to me. Could you try using my patch and doing that with it? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:22:58 +0200 Message-ID: <85tzv2xrnh.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177664018 14484 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 08:53:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:53:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 10:53:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhMCu-0005XN-1i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:53:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhMIi-0006N9-Vv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:59:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhMIK-0006BX-9P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:59:12 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhMII-0006At-Rv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:59:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhMII-0006Ae-CI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:59:10 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhMCS-0003yA-I6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:53:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhM9e-0006J6-Su; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:50:15 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 5EFFC1C1342B; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:22:58 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 01\:59\:32 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70230 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are > selected, another pretest will be needed. > > Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, > bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about > 20 lines. > > But I agree we should make one more pretest. > > This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. Richard, Emacs contains _thousands_ of files and functions and modes. Of _course_ some detail will _always_ bother somebody. We are trying to roll a _release_ here. Doing changes in a central area affecting all modes, in order to appease a small minority of users having a problem with details of a single mode is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!! in this phase of development. We will _never_ _ever_ be able to release Emacs with this sort of mixed-up priorities at work. I am going to a conference today where I'll be presenting AUCTeX and the "upcoming" Emacs 22 again, like I did for _several_ years. And I will be doing the same for years to come, earning a laughing stock life time award if the release process does not get a grip. You may be basking in the illusion that this increases the quality of the released Emacs. I severely doubt that. It just stops the _qualified_ developers from making more important reports in order to not hold up the release, and hope that the trickling of irrelevant reports will at one point of time cease for long enough to let Emacs 22 escape from your hands and give it to the public. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:27:06 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177669978 4376 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 10:32:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:32:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 12:32:55 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhNkx-00076R-4T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:32:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhNqm-0001Jt-Gg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:38:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhNls-0002Nf-1z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:33:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhNlr-0002Lw-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:33:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhNlq-0002Lg-Ru for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:33:46 -0400 Original-Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk ([195.41.46.235]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhNfu-00011L-2Y; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:27:38 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (0x503e2644.bynxx19.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.62.38.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 213EDFAC035; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:27:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 01\:59\:32 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70235 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are > selected, another pretest will be needed. > > Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, > bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about > 20 lines. > > But I agree we should make one more pretest. > > This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. We are in pretest, and the _only_ reason for rolling the .99 pretest was to be sure that the changes made since .98 didn't break anything, so we could safely make the 22.1 release (after a few days). Since, you have continued to install changes for new bugs, and as a result we need a .100 pretest to be sure... Please stop now!! Once we have rolled the .100 pretest (very soon I hope), PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL _ANY_ PATCHES on the EMACS_22_BASE branch, unless they are directly related to breakage caused by one of the recent changes made before the .100 pretest. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:14:30 +0200 Message-ID: <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177672499 14977 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 11:14:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:14:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Kim F. Storm" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 13:14:56 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhOPd-0004VX-LR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:14:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOVT-00072L-AT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:20:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOVP-0006zE-EB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:20:51 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOVN-0006xy-UX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:20:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOVN-0006xu-Of for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:20:49 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOPT-0000V9-BN; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:14:43 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:64809 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOPQ-0006Sp-8V; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:14:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HhOPQ-0006Sp-8V. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1HhOPQ-0006Sp-8V a880f739249e565df49626158aa400be X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70238 Archived-At: Kim F. Storm wrote: > Richard Stallman writes: > >> I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are >> selected, another pretest will be needed. >> >> Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, >> bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about >> 20 lines. >> >> But I agree we should make one more pretest. >> >> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. > > Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: > > WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. I can understand that this does not bother you at all as long as you do not do something similar to that, but please have patience with us who tries to make it possible to use Emacs for those kind of things too. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:17:46 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177672639 15550 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 11:17:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:17:19 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 13:17:17 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhORv-0005Bb-Iz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:17:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOXl-0001V5-Bh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:23:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOXh-0001RP-6x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:23:13 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOXg-0001QP-5z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:23:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOXf-0001QH-KF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:23:11 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhORo-0000pk-Uo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:17:09 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HhORV-0002uq-JI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:16:49 +0200 Original-Received: from sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.223.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:16:49 +0200 Original-Received: from sdl.web by sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:16:49 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 11 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sl392.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACgAAAAoBAMAAAB+0KVeAAAAGFBMVEUzRVhbQj4eZqO6SjnT eWpxnMetm5b6/PmidmqrAAAAAWJLR0QAiAUdSAAAAAlwSFlzAAALEwAACxMBAJqcGAAAAAd0SU1F B9cBBwMLBfKABCMAAAFoSURBVCjPtZI9a8MwEIaFoc7aYDdelQMna0Em3tsSr0XUeE2Q6a22a+v+ fk8fSSBkbDUI6dHpfe9OEvRgiD+ApqKPJgJeB6iUUXWESjUe/ig38AJrhqqvaU2nTIXbNvOQ40fe qdry4kyGoVWsfCQalXpHnJGM01wjWdYbMlXNFdsZDO69m9aqNqxEJqTEgbM5OF7wlEfIoll1Ked4 LbM5X2EdILLokEdmI8z7g5cKED0cuTC930TYhy7ZDekkXVGw/L60TguJePPxcJF48lpsSUWEA/Ju jGFNgJOXc4Hz7TmAdBeu5Ve4AEjOi2/2jfd3cAJZ+IbNrvdjgBZY01b+HTuG3cLws6BJZqVOj/pp T0OqVwx3rFq+QmJwx3loK5JSLEhDIt62+mtC2C+SrAUxEbV6C6v2BRbd6pILBKFpepKZJHgGgrKF sptSUUoczpwg2pQ7ZH1tgs0ou/917mzz6Cs2//C978cv5l07L02orIEAAAAASUVORK5CYII= User-Agent: No Gnus v0.6, Emacs/23.0.0.14 (2007-04-24), Fedora 6 gnu/linux Cancel-Lock: sha1:2HGA9GbtcprMzyuiSolIVEzRqM4= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70239 Archived-At: ----- Richard Stallman (2007-04-27) wrote:----- > This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. I as well as many other end users are bothered by the delay of the release because we are dying to see the unicode2 branch merged and thus save us a great deal of trouble. As you know, we are using a different language system and Emacs 22 is not competent enough. -- Leo (GPG Key: 9283AA3F) From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:41:08 +0200 Message-ID: <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177674095 21342 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 11:41:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:41:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 13:41:30 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhOpJ-0004sf-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:41:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv9-000219-1n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv5-0001zd-DG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:23 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv4-0001yg-LB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOv4-0001yb-IY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:47:22 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOpD-000450-T2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:41:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOmP-0005Am-EY; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id E6D0E1C13429; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:41:08 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 13\:14\:30 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70242 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > Kim F. Storm wrote: >> Richard Stallman writes: >> >>> I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are >>> selected, another pretest will be needed. >>> >>> Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, >>> bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about >>> 20 lines. >>> >>> But I agree we should make one more pretest. >>> >>> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. >> >> Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: >> >> WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. > > > I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and > confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. There have been five years to go about fixing this. NOW IS NOT THE TIME!!! > I can understand that this does not bother you at all as long as you > do not do something similar to that, but please have patience with > us who tries to make it possible to use Emacs for those kind of > things too. If we have patience for every user of any of the multitude of modes for all combinations of every little problem, to the degree to let them mess with variables affecting _all_ users at any point in the release process, there will never be a release and _all_ users are left out in the cold. We are in the final release stage. Anything but last-minute regressions or catastrophic failure is _not_ supposed to hold up the release. There will _always_ be fixes to apply, year after year, decade after decade. We can't get every conceivable fix into every release. Much more and worse problems will crop up after the release, and dealing with them (which requires hearing about them) is _held_ _up_ indefinitely by never ever releasing Emacs to the public. I am _very_ certain that the last few problems that have nonsensically blocked the release for the fast few weeks will be _dwarfed_ by the amounts of bugs that still remain. There is no _point_ in holding up the release further. It _delays_ further development, further bugfixes, alienates users and developers and makes Emacs a far _worse_ editor than it could be if it was released to people actually _using_ it heavy-duty, instead of keeping a small circle playing around with buglets that are comparatively irrelevant for normal use and have easy and understandable workarounds. Instead we are _still_ forcing people to work with Emacs versions that are 6 years old and _far_ _far_ buggier than anything we could have released in the last few months or even years. It is a bloody shame. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:49:40 +0200 Message-ID: <4631E354.3040201@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177674606 23316 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 11:50:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:50:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 13:50:01 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhOxd-000816-45 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:50:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP3S-0006Sw-Ua for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:56:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP3Q-0006Sr-0h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP3O-0006Sf-FC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:55:59 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP3O-0006Sc-9g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:55:58 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOxU-0005IY-5h; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:49:52 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:64403 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HhOxM-0006p3-8a; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:49:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HhOxM-0006p3-8a. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1HhOxM-0006p3-8a 05235bcc102943929c0669e23344ca93 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70243 Archived-At: David Kastrup wrote: > "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > >> Kim F. Storm wrote: >>> Richard Stallman writes: >>> >>>> I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are >>>> selected, another pretest will be needed. >>>> >>>> Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, >>>> bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about >>>> 20 lines. >>>> >>>> But I agree we should make one more pretest. >>>> >>>> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. >>> Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: >>> >>> WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. >> >> I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and >> confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. > > There have been five years to go about fixing this. NOW IS NOT THE > TIME!!! If I do not misremember I have mentioned this problem before. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:56:04 +0200 Message-ID: <85tzv2f2uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4631E354.3040201@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177675044 24935 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 11:57:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:57:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 13:57:22 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhP4h-0001fz-5k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:57:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPAX-0000zZ-20 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:03:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP9W-0000Dr-MD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:02:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP9V-0000Be-0j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:02:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP9T-0000Ay-UN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:02:16 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhP3c-0006NE-Gp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:56:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhP0q-0007Zt-NJ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:53:20 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 1B7651C13429; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:56:04 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <4631E354.3040201@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 13\:49\:40 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70244 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: >> >>> Kim F. Storm wrote: >>>> Richard Stallman writes: >>>> >>>>> I think if you install a ~150 line patch that affects how modes are >>>>> selected, another pretest will be needed. >>>>> >>>>> Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, >>>>> bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about >>>>> 20 lines. >>>>> >>>>> But I agree we should make one more pretest. >>>>> >>>>> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. >>>> Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: >>>> >>>> WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. >>> >>> I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and >>> confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. >> >> There have been five years to go about fixing this. NOW IS NOT THE >> TIME!!! > > If I do not misremember I have mentioned this problem before. So much the worse. Well, you did not manage to get it fixed for the release. That's in line with a whole lot of other problems and usability issues. Too bad. What do people think we are about to release? "Emacs 22.1, the editor without any bugs or problems, with no further improvements possible"? Emacs is a _large_ system, for crying out loud. We won't get it bug-free ever. The only thing that is supposed to hold up a release is a _release-critical_ bug. Having mentioned some problem before does not make it release-critical. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:03:22 +0200 Message-ID: <4631E68A.3000801@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4631E354.3040201@gmail.com> <85tzv2f2uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177675435 26465 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 12:03:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:03:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 14:03:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhPB1-0003jm-Er for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:03:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPGr-0007h7-DH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:09:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPGo-0007ek-7T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:09:50 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPGn-0007dG-Cz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:09:49 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPGn-0007d4-8J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:09:49 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.212]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPAt-0007r7-86; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:03:43 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:64917 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPAj-0008O0-4a; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:03:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <85tzv2f2uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HhPAj-0008O0-4a. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1HhPAj-0008O0-4a e60629e4dc30f0b8de36b4ef01e148dc X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70245 Archived-At: David Kastrup wrote: >>>>>> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. >>>>> Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: >>>>> >>>>> WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. >>>> I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and >>>> confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. >>> There have been five years to go about fixing this. NOW IS NOT THE >>> TIME!!! >> If I do not misremember I have mentioned this problem before. > > So much the worse. Well, you did not manage to get it fixed for the > release. In a way much worse, yes. And should it not be "we did not manage". It is a big collaborative effort (and I like that). From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:22:01 +0200 Message-ID: <85lkgef1na.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4631E354.3040201@gmail.com> <85tzv2f2uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4631E68A.3000801@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177676544 30683 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 12:22:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:22:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 14:22:22 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhPSt-0001Y2-2E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:22:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPYi-0000G6-NA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:28:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPYe-0000Fj-IX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:28:16 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPYc-0000F1-Lw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:28:15 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPYc-0000Ey-JY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:28:14 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPSl-0001cU-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:22:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPPx-0001og-Lz; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:19:17 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id 27C311C13429; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:22:01 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <4631E68A.3000801@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 14\:03\:22 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70246 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > David Kastrup wrote: > >>>>>>> This problem really bothers people, so we should not leave it unfixed. >>>>>> Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: >>>>>> >>>>>> WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. >>>>> I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and >>>>> confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. >>>> There have been five years to go about fixing this. NOW IS NOT THE >>>> TIME!!! >>> If I do not misremember I have mentioned this problem before. >> >> So much the worse. Well, you did not manage to get it fixed for the >> release. > > In a way much worse, yes. And should it not be "we did not > manage". It is a big collaborative effort (and I like that). I wrote "get it fixed", not "fix it". If you are bothered by a problem, it is your problem to get it fixed, by whoever. Tough, but hardly world-shattering. Of course it is not your fault that Richard has no concept of "release-critical" and so everybody else is pussyfooting around him as the last resort for _ever_ getting out a release. In a sane development and release environment, bringing up a bug or problem should be allowed at anytime. Unfortunately, we don't have a sane development environment. The silliest things will cause Richard to extend the pretest cycle with invasive changes. So it becomes the responsibility of bug reporters to shut their trap until Richard is fooled into believing that Emacs 22.1 will be perfect for everybody, and feels fine releasing it. So get in line with the rest. Everybody has his pet peeves. We can't afford to let Richard hear about any of them (lest they be release-critical or already completely vetoed) until after the release. Sorry for sounding off so cynical. If somebody else can offer a better view on events, go for it. I'd be glad to be shown wrong, _really_ glad. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:48:58 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177678149 4449 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 12:49:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:49:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 14:49:08 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhPsp-0003Hc-42 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:49:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPyf-0005Hi-B3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:55:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPyc-0005EJ-01 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:55:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPya-0005Ac-BN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:55:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPya-0005AM-7R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:55:04 -0400 Original-Received: from romy.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.24]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPsj-0004fI-3G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:49:01 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-36-220.inter.net.il [80.230.36.220]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3-GA) with ESMTP id HSC41925 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:49:00 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> (lennart.borgman@gmail.com) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70248 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:14:30 +0200 > From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" > Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, rms@gnu.org, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. > > I beg to differ. That is because, Lennart, you don't care for the release at all. You are using the CVS code, lobby others to use the binaries you prepare from CVS, and therefore an officially released version of Emacs has no real value to you. Why care about it, if there's always tomorrow's CVS? You are, of course, entitled to think and act like that, but that's not how most of Emacs users think and act, evidently. Most Emacs users want an officially released version, or are forced by their sysadmins to use official versions, because they still believe that an official release has higher quality than today's snapshot. Please respect those views. They don't really interfere with what you want, since there's now a release branch, and changes that fix the bugs that so annoy you can still be checked in to the trunk, from where you can produce a binary that is free of those bugs. What David (and others) were talking about was about freezing (_really_ freezing) the release branch. I don't see why you should disagree with that, as the fixed version will be ready on the trunk in no time. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:53:08 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177678402 5654 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 12:53:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 14:53:21 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhPwt-0004zC-Gy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:53:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQ2j-0001g3-Lh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQ2g-0001fo-7a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQ2e-0001fL-Mj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:17 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQ2e-0001fI-FM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:16 -0400 Original-Received: from nitzan.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.22]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPwl-00055d-Di; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:53:11 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-36-220.inter.net.il [80.230.36.220]) by nitzan.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id GPS06283 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:53:10 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: (storm@cua.dk) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70249 Archived-At: > From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:27:06 +0200 > Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Once we have rolled the .100 pretest (very soon I hope), > > PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL _ANY_ PATCHES on the EMACS_22_BASE branch, > > unless they are directly related to breakage caused by one of the > recent changes made before the .100 pretest. Actually, I think even changes that _are_ directly related to recent breakage should be committed only very selectively: if the breakage they caused is really severe. Otherwise we will still be trapped inside the same vicious circle. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:08:26 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <85tzv2xrnh.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177679410 9671 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 13:10:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:10:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 15:10:09 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhQD6-0001io-9k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:10:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQIv-0003Di-1H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:16:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQIr-0003CC-6V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:16:01 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQIo-0003BQ-OJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:16:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhQIo-0003BN-IB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:15:58 -0400 Original-Received: from romy.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.24]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhQCT-0006zp-Lh; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:09:26 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-36-220.inter.net.il [80.230.36.220]) by romy.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3-GA) with ESMTP id HSC48923 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:08:28 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <85tzv2xrnh.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (message from David Kastrup on Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:22:58 +0200) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70250 Archived-At: > From: David Kastrup > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:22:58 +0200 > Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > You may be basking in the illusion that this increases the quality of > the released Emacs. I severely doubt that. Actually, I'm positive that the quality of Emacs codebase has not improved, on the average, for quite some time. We are in a limit cycle, whereby changes are committed that could wait until after the release, those changes cause breakage, the breakage is fixed, then another unnecessary change is made, and so on. And the quality respectively oscillates up and down, with no visible trend. The only way to ensure that the pretest steadily improves the quality is to consistently enforce more and more stringent rules as to what changes can go in, until eventually the only allowed changes are trivial doc fixes and simple rewording in the manuals--and then stick to this stringent policy for a couple of last pretests. By contrast, it seems that what we do is waiting for a long enough period without bug reports as some kind of signal that ``there are no more serious bugs''. This is of course false, since a period of silence can (and usually will) be caused by something utterly unrelated, such as a public holiday or college vacation. Such decision policy simply means that we will release at some random point in time, and the quality of the released Emacs will be similarly random. (Yes, this is a straw man, but if someone can provide any other reasonable rationale for the current decision policy, please be my guest.) From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:11:16 +0100 Message-ID: <90571B41-7207-441B-AF52-968B2F1BDF7C@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177683091 25279 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 14:11:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:11:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 16:11:28 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhRAV-0006XW-PH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:11:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhRGM-0005rz-Af for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:17:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhRGI-0005rt-Je for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:17:26 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhRGH-0005rg-1A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:17:26 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhRGG-0005rd-S9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:17:24 -0400 Original-Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.230]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhRAP-0006ZH-8u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:11:21 -0400 Original-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s17so925105wxc for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:11:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=nRjollagm327YiX8VfMvspIJjp9kaoj6N9Zdam5nApLWCV5NvqHOlRW0WonTquiLMUipCDZl7BDvqdVbAR4K85W1mcpdyKKKui6kgSne8rvqmTu1/PVcXUH60m5PbQQ2jPhFWiFtbDiuikHqXmSeTBYnNKtniXv/J2nZVdJX2H4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=apNtedSmy2DMQJyvtm6AQl5R2oAdZ4CXvwbADWMwxLVDNOXwyFPxPxmeAxCGyIJCZWzifNTAaKGsQrw6Nm8HlztP3W/l5WJoH3NABon+EIuGQOhzQwc7YJWeg0Hpo8ae0UyyVz0xUIpDspqeOAMfyh/9ts6fJ58fgh2hOhKU104= Original-Received: by 10.90.102.20 with SMTP id z20mr3439262agb.1177683079398; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?129.215.174.81? ( [129.215.174.81]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id u1sm32913uge.2007.04.27.07.11.17; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:11:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 (Google crawlbot) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70260 Archived-At: On 27 Apr 2007, at 13:48, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > That is because, Lennart, you don't care for the release at all. You > are using the CVS code, lobby others to use the binaries you prepare > from CVS, and therefore an officially released version of Emacs has no > real value to you. Why care about it, if there's always tomorrow's > CVS? Even though I am keeping busy preparing binaries for others, I can only say that I agree with you and David K.: Please, stop checking in stuff and release 22.1 after the next pretest build. Because my releases are heavily patched and customized, nothing is more annoying than to work with the CVS head. I've been shooting at a moving target for two years now. A release would be in many people's interests. I've got a number of bugs that I've reported, and I even wrote patches for them which did not get checked in. I'm not pursuing it because I'd like to see a release! From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Edward O'Connor Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:58:45 -0400 Organization: Church of Emacs Message-ID: <86zm4teja2.fsf@rakim.cfhp.org> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177700526 1674 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 19:02:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:02:06 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 21:02:05 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhVhg-0003ZI-O8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:02:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVnY-0004k4-OR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:08:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVnI-0004et-IL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:07:48 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVnG-0004eC-RG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:07:48 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVnG-0004dr-Mj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:07:46 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhVhN-0002ZO-LJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:01:41 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HhVhJ-0004pV-8R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:01:37 +0200 Original-Received: from rakim.cfhp.org ([69.45.6.105]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:01:37 +0200 Original-Received: from hober0 by rakim.cfhp.org with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:01:37 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 24 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: rakim.cfhp.org Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEX47PoBAAegiLwiH1N IQYI0M4iMeKYBAAYGBBGqm9JF4g0mAAACYElEQVR4nGWTsY/aMBTGLXoLo8WQjNVrFJXxzviUbig JEcy5SNft5LhRGT3RNecUuRuiCMn/bZ+dhHDqJ2SZ7+f3nt/DEMOcqv9E9AdQTsD7fPw6hRIz+iw xxuhbMBn3SUtRofk95CTa9D49UIWiRvt4TnTiNmUbHIIDykUxdwm8lTvQUmergwoCpXR/qwojXqk 7jTEK1xANXhKOgD8eRmHggrt2CNKKtfcAU3EHkCbB5OJn4Ws40Prco6jhAyiDoSyeTrAb1gNe+dI eKNVlpvXNE5+pT6HUIjEi24a8B6XvjSrd0rCon5vCDwX7eA2wvV9bqrPWdCAFZBtfA0tQRWmRsE6 uZCMA6qYHbRDg6I5RlxVSFNCISG56QB3oIBNSRKL+JuLMg9LZlGqIUhCFlH9m8FN74GxFQwEFxKm crWYQJQ680v43TSEGEDArAWLJPVAObN8BHDghhrwcI1RYH2GSLMfiKnzWd6DGx4DvwNc41mIC0QQ WqzgXH0HV+kvVoohvIB5AaHRSyCZHyzawtOd4SBUyXR9lxOb2RB7Sz4T0AB8zY/smvWzRIrN0OQL GcsbW8zf7dY1gfsIlZm66JUsdOK3ljjjNCbnoHuxq9jQnb+TkAa6XY0XyJmf7C1uRwfbk4b0m1tr 8+zljb+ROD0+xA9f4umHP9+CTAAesjfGPWNyBvzCAc5ax/I40CFJPvkQrC/vRP+NsiC58LpGKfWH 7Ppy/JMY8ObK0AJfTRUDTz5eQxHS2VxPlG1697N0ee4qSbjeQ64bjc94Nhex1b+2N5Hn1MoJJwlp pf1Rr7/8DXitGHanPc2gAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Attribution: Ted Jabber-ID: hober0@gmail.com User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6) Emacs/21.3 (berkeley-unix) Cancel-Lock: sha1:nvcmc1/nxdHng62a6ouaz/pA7HY= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70279 Archived-At: Kim wrote: > Richard, sorry for shouting, but how else can I make you listen: > > WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. Lennart replied: > I beg to differ. The current situation is very inconvenient and > confusing sometimes when you open for example php files. As someone who edits PHP files with Emacs for many hours every day, I can honestly say that I'm far more concerned with the release than I am with any inconveniences on the PHP front or, for that matter, any other specific mode. Ted -- Edward O'Connor hober0@gmail.com Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Glenn Morris Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:51:53 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177703751 12959 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 19:55:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:55:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 21:55:50 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhWXl-0006zN-Io for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:55:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWdd-00052w-LV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:01:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWcd-0004Jo-0W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:00:51 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWcb-0004Hx-GE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:00:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWca-0004Hf-FD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:00:48 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWWh-0007yp-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:54:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWTy-0003qU-ML; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:51:54 -0400 X-Spook: kibo Ortega SWAT Montenegro Mena NATO sweep sniper X-Ran: -)<@=(7FNH0-@?l}O;$u*3De!_jg11fw6"mZu:F/.WY%FhEDst=Z>Ns,K{"o7V;7?q\pB^ X-Hue: green X-Attribution: GM In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:59:32 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70280 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: > Please do not exaggerate. There are about 52 lines of code changes, > bu most of them are just indentation changes. Real changes are about > 20 lines. FWIW, I wasn't deliberately exaggerating; I just looked at the size of your message without looking closely at the patch. I find `-w' a useful addition to diff's switches. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:17:58 +0200 Message-ID: <46325A76.7090701@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177705092 20020 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 20:18:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:18:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 22:18:11 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhWtO-0006GQ-Ew for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:18:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWzG-00063f-P1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:24:14 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWzD-00063a-EI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:24:11 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWzB-00063N-0O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:24:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWzA-00063K-Rb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWtG-0001lH-EE; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:65367 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWtE-0007Wy-6W; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:18:00 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HhWtE-0007Wy-6W. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1HhWtE-0007Wy-6W c66e6885313c47253ab41ed3a1a5286e X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70281 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: > That is because, Lennart, you don't care for the release at all. You > are using the CVS code, lobby others to use the binaries you prepare > from CVS, and therefore an officially released version of Emacs has no > real value to you. Why care about it, if there's always tomorrow's > CVS? I think you are underestimating yourself and maybe my view of you when you write like above. > You are, of course, entitled to think and act like that, but that's > not how most of Emacs users think and act, evidently. Most Emacs > users want an officially released version, or are forced by their > sysadmins to use official versions, because they still believe that an > official release has higher quality than today's snapshot. Please > respect those views. I try to. > They don't really interfere with what you want, > since there's now a release branch, and changes that fix the bugs that > so annoy you can still be checked in to the trunk, from where you can > produce a binary that is free of those bugs. That is good, but I think you are misunderstanding me a bit. Maybe I was misunderstanding the context in which I answered. The problem I think we where talking about was the magic-mode-alist. My concern is as usual new users (I hope many new users will try Emacs 22) and I think magic-mode-alist is mostly in the way, confusing them. This particular problem is however not a very, very big problem. In any case I appreciate constructive answers to the problem. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chong Yidong Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:53:18 -0400 Message-ID: <87hcr1mtdt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <46325A76.7090701@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177707087 28452 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 20:51:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:51:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 22:51:25 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhXPY-0000zZ-Tu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:51:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXVR-0002T7-C3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:57:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXVN-0002Sb-Q5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:57:25 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXVL-0002SN-DM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:57:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXVL-0002SJ-7f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:57:23 -0400 Original-Received: from cyd.mit.edu ([18.19.1.138]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXPR-0004ju-1e; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:51:17 -0400 Original-Received: by cyd.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A26DB4EBB1; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:53:18 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <46325A76.7090701@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 22\:17\:58 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.99 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70287 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > (I hope many new users will try Emacs 22) You're rather assuming it's going to be released. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:53:36 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177707247 28929 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 20:54:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:54:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 22:54:05 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhXS8-0001kJ-9E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:54:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXY0-0002oJ-PY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:00:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXXy-0002o4-03 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:00:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXXw-0002ns-Lo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:00:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXXw-0002np-J1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:00:04 -0400 Original-Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk ([195.41.46.237]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXS1-0004yi-KE; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:53:57 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (0x503e2644.bynxx19.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.62.38.68]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 816038A002D; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:53:54 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri\, 27 Apr 2007 15\:53\:08 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70288 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) >> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:27:06 +0200 >> Cc: Glenn Morris , user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> Once we have rolled the .100 pretest (very soon I hope), >> >> PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL _ANY_ PATCHES on the EMACS_22_BASE branch, >> >> unless they are directly related to breakage caused by one of the >> recent changes made before the .100 pretest. > > Actually, I think even changes that _are_ directly related to recent > breakage should be committed only very selectively: if the breakage > they caused is really severe. I agree. In my book "breakage" implies "severe" :-) -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:02:27 +0200 Message-ID: <463264E3.4070601@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <46325A76.7090701@gmail.com> <87hcr1mtdt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177707764 30837 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 21:02:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:02:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Chong Yidong Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 23:02:42 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhXaT-0004hW-OH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:02:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXgM-0008Rs-A2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:08:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXgH-0008PZ-OI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:08:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXgD-0008LG-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:08:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXgD-0008L0-Ne for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:08:37 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXaJ-000626-3A; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:02:31 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:65409 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXaH-00011g-6q; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:02:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <87hcr1mtdt.fsf@stupidchicken.com> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HhXaH-00011g-6q. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1HhXaH-00011g-6q aaa22bb57933596855f3114831f78ad2 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70289 Archived-At: Chong Yidong wrote: > "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > >> (I hope many new users will try Emacs 22) > > You're rather assuming it's going to be released. Yes, I really hope so. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:41:06 +0200 Message-ID: <46326DF2.5040005@gmail.com> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <4631DB16.6030408@gmail.com> <853b2mgi3v.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4631E354.3040201@gmail.com> <85tzv2f2uj.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4631E68A.3000801@gmail.com> <85lkgef1na.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177710079 8387 80.91.229.12 (27 Apr 2007 21:41:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 27 23:41:18 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhYBo-00080S-7l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:41:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhYHg-0006YN-N0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:47:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhYHd-0006YH-Ab for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:47:17 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhYHa-0006XV-VS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:47:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhYHa-0006XN-Pw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:47:14 -0400 Original-Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net ([80.76.149.213]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhYBg-00010D-D1; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:41:08 -0400 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:59387 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HhYBd-0006wI-8p; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:41:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070326 Thunderbird/2.0.0.0 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 In-Reply-To: <85lkgef1na.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007-04-26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1HhYBd-0006wI-8p. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1HhYBd-0006wI-8p 7e58a840e131edc097b5a7b4293a7f68 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6? (barebone, rare!) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70292 Archived-At: David Kastrup wrote: > I wrote "get it fixed", not "fix it". If you are bothered by a > problem, it is your problem to get it fixed, by whoever. Yes, I saw you wrote "get it fixed". But even that is a collaborative effort. > Tough, but hardly world-shattering. No, but maybe impossible in some situations. Collaboration is of course a big win/necessity for a huge project. It does not come for free however. Majority vs minority questions will always have to be tackled to avoid long term difficulties. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:06:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177733524 17287 80.91.229.12 (28 Apr 2007 04:12:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:12:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rgm@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 28 06:12:02 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HheHu-0001FU-7x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:11:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HheNp-0005ok-00 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:18:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HheLi-0004BF-AQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:15:54 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HheLh-0004AG-DI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:15:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HheLh-00049z-61 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:15:53 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HheFl-0007G1-La for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:09:45 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HheD1-000105-W5; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:06:56 -0400 In-reply-to: (storm@cua.dk) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70301 Archived-At: WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. Do you expect me to believe you because you shout? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:07:36 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177733698 17948 80.91.229.12 (28 Apr 2007 04:14:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:14:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 28 06:14:56 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HheKi-0002Ku-4H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:14:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HheQc-0007xY-RV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HheMJ-0004cG-8Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:16:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HheMI-0004br-9f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:16:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HheMH-0004bd-TW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:16:29 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HheGM-0007NG-EG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:10:22 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HheDg-00016G-OP; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:07:36 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:51:53 -0400) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70306 Archived-At: FWIW, I wasn't deliberately exaggerating; I just looked at the size of your message without looking closely at the patch. I find `-w' a useful addition to diff's switches. I understand. I didn't take it personally. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:04:01 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177747490 12012 80.91.229.12 (28 Apr 2007 08:04:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:04:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 28 10:04:47 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhhvA-0005Ke-EX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:04:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhi16-0007XC-8I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:10:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhi0b-00077U-DL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:10:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhi0Z-00075y-NF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:10:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhi0Z-00075r-Hr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:10:19 -0400 Original-Received: from heller.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.23]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hhhub-0000rL-QY; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:04:10 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-83-130-2-99.inter.net.il [83.130.2.99]) by heller.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id CLL95770 (AUTH halo1); Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:03:59 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: (message from Glenn Morris on Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:51:53 -0400) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70314 Archived-At: > From: Glenn Morris > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:51:53 -0400 > Cc: user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > I find `-w' a useful addition to diff's switches. Except when applying them with Patch. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:59:43 +0200 Message-ID: <853b2kfvlc.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177768840 29807 80.91.229.12 (28 Apr 2007 14:00:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:00:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rgm@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, "Kim F. Storm" To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 28 16:00:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HhnTU-00044x-De for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:00:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnZR-0003Oo-VW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:06:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnZP-0003Mq-C2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:06:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnZO-0003Me-UF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:06:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhnZO-0003Mb-Qg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:06:38 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhnTQ-0005mw-KY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:00:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HhnQE-0003wZ-A4; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:57:19 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id DACB71C13429; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:59:43 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat\, 28 Apr 2007 00\:06\:55 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70323 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. > > Do you expect me to believe you because you shout? Well, the evidence is that you don't heed people when they tell you again and again without shouting. So I don't think he expects you to believe him whether or not he is shouting, but he rather is venting his frustration. Which is understandable. We have been going over this for months. I happen to be very annoyed as well by the recent completely irrational holdups of the release. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Juanma Barranquero" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:20:39 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177770052 3665 80.91.229.12 (28 Apr 2007 14:20:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 28 16:20:51 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hhnn6-0002j2-Hi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:20:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhnt4-0007CI-5n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:26:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhnsz-00076h-Rd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:26:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhnsx-00071m-9r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:26:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhnsx-00071T-11 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:26:51 -0400 Original-Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.237]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hhnmy-0007b0-Iv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:20:40 -0400 Original-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s17so43408wxc for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ENjCaeyWcOi9MUF7SMGFlzOXVr2gOJTtGUd0fAfsrT5ySHFPbL8ffXrXoUURw8fGRvZWLJfoac9rRNFwRWVbsoVJmvr9QLw/u06VQfCi+bWfoZ4RNHSdvsSLaOwZKIOiOMnA48V7NQqkzjUPTnATWq5nGqd60ImIZRaITyNl7Yo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hs/4SImNaOhx25GDc7/LFSWfX0bFrl7/jR3/2s4CGVYEy9nutvplL6cdHHUScMKzlI3nPRkvXlWjwTcYgk9WTugZ8ABPQKijDPulkFAHtWM0rMNGdUOf6mbbC69cYoNLGBQYaGhNMOrW8JWqt9y2Ju1DxV1ZW+R0fRGmekozpwg= Original-Received: by 10.90.119.15 with SMTP id r15mr4348843agc.1177770039179; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.90.87.8 with HTTP; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:20:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 (Google crawlbot) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70327 Archived-At: On 4/28/07, Richard Stallman wrote: > Do you expect me to believe you because you shout? Personally I would expect you to give some credence to Kim, and many others who also spoke about the issue and do have experience in managing releases, without the need of anyone shouting. (I'm not implying you lack experience in managing software releases, of course; only pointing out that the people you're choosing not to believe do not talk idly or lightly.) Juanma From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:17:32 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177881486 22290 80.91.229.12 (29 Apr 2007 21:18:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:18:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rgm@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 29 23:18:04 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HiGmQ-00057x-BA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:18:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiGsW-0002rk-Ut for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:24:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HiGsT-0002r7-Um for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:24:17 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HiGsR-0002qY-Bx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:24:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiGsR-0002qV-6J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:24:15 -0400 Original-Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk ([195.41.46.235]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HiGmG-0002Lm-6u; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:17:52 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (0x503e2644.bynxx19.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.62.38.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 006AEFAC020; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:17:48 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat\, 28 Apr 2007 00\:06\:55 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70371 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > WHAT _REALLY_ BOTHERS PEOPLE IS THAT EMACS 22.1 IS NOT RELEASED YET. > > Do you expect me to believe you because you shout? Given past history, (sadly) no. FWIW, I will not contribute any further to Emacs development until Emacs 22.1 has been officially released. Once that happens, I will resume Emacs development, provided that SOMEBODY ELSE controls future emacs releases. Believe me!!! -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: html-mode demanding a bit too tight Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:09:10 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177971165 6560 80.91.229.12 (30 Apr 2007 22:12:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:12:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rgm@gnu.org, user42@zip.com.au, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 01 00:12:43 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hie6t-0003Hu-Li for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 May 2007 00:12:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HieD7-0001lQ-Hf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:19:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HieCT-0000nN-73 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:18:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HieCS-0000mU-Oy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:18:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HieCS-0000lM-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:18:28 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hie6D-00030z-P9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:12:01 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hie3S-0001xj-Ln; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:09:10 -0400 In-reply-to: (storm@cua.dk) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70421 Archived-At: FWIW, I will not contribute any further to Emacs development until Emacs 22.1 has been officially released. I appreciate your past contributions, and I regret your departure. I hope you will be back some day. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: unicode-2 and multitty (was: html-mode demanding a bit too tight) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:13:27 +0200 Message-ID: <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178270039 1900 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 09:13:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:13:59 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 11:13:57 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HjtrL-0002hP-EA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 11:13:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjtxv-0004kb-Pv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:20:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjtxd-0004hc-It for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:20:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjtxc-0004hH-8N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:20:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjtxb-0004h9-O9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:20:20 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hjtqy-0002JQ-JJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:13:28 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (pd95b0fdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.91.15.219]) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15769 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:13:25 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 6916 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 09:13:27 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 May 2007 09:13:27 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 95D668F95C; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:13:27 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Mon\, 30 Apr 2007 18\:09\:10 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70533 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > FWIW, I will not contribute any further to Emacs development > until Emacs 22.1 has been officially released. > > I appreciate your past contributions, and I regret your departure. > I hope you will be back some day. This ominous remark makes little sense unless there is no intent of actually releasing Emacs 22.1 in the foreseeable future. So the question is what developers who don't want to be party to the release farce are supposed to do if they don't want to let Emacs development fall into obsolescence. While the release is "imminent", letting HEAD and the release branch diverge would likely be impolite. So what work is there to be done? The roadmap called more or less for merging the multitty branch and the unicode-2 branch "after the release". There is probably no necessity in doing this kind of work in HEAD. It should likely be possible to already do this in unicode-2. The disadvantage would be that it will become somewhat more work to keep changes in HEAD synchronized to unicode-2, but the multitty branch was supposed to be confined to a rather small number of places. Doing this now will work towards a timely release of Emacs 23.1, and it would appear that there is little sense in freezing the Emacs 23.1 process just because 22.1 is stalling. So for those who have gotten tired investing energy and focus into the release of 22.1 (and there remains little enough in the way of _possibilities_ to invest them there), maybe it would be a possibility to switch to the unicode-2 branch, and also work on the merge of multitty. I know that there are a few prepacked "Emacs-23" variants around: would it be acceptable to the maintainers of those if the unicode-2 branch were to go through a period of relative instability caused by the merge of multitty? Would it be better etiquette to create or use a different mailing list than this one for discussing such work on the unicode-2 branch? Thanks, -- David Kastrup From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jason Rumney Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 10:41:29 +0100 Message-ID: <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178271708 7484 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 09:41:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:41:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 11:41:47 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HjuIL-00086p-4z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 11:41:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuOx-00016y-9I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:48:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuOr-00013L-SL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:48:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuOn-0000yc-Sv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:48:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuOn-0000yZ-O0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:48:25 -0400 Original-Received: from outmail1.freedom2surf.net ([194.106.33.237]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HjuIA-0006Aq-0T; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:41:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (i-83-67-23-108.freedom2surf.net [83.67.23.108]) by outmail1.freedom2surf.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 780BB52EBC; Fri, 4 May 2007 10:41:33 +0100 (BST) User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.0 (Windows/20070326) In-Reply-To: <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70535 Archived-At: David Kastrup wrote: > I know that there are a few prepacked "Emacs-23" variants around: > would it be acceptable to the maintainers of those if the unicode-2 > branch were to go through a period of relative instability caused by > the merge of multitty? > Since multitty has never been in CVS, it hasn't had as widespread testing as unicode-2, especially on non-unix/GNU platforms. So it is probably better to create a new branch, and first import the multitty code from its current repository, then merge in the unicode-2 changes. Once that branch is stable, we can abandon the unicode-2 branch and use the new branch for all "future" development. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ulrich Mueller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:42:25 +0200 Message-ID: <17979.1.983220.396270@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178271770 7677 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 09:42:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 09:42:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs@gentoo.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 11:42:48 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HjuJJ-0008GQ-In for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 11:42:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuPv-0001aq-Mq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:49:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuPq-0001Wo-Iy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:49:30 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuPo-0001Ti-Sl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjuPo-0001TR-NU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:49:28 -0400 Original-Received: from a1iwww1.kph.uni-mainz.de ([134.93.134.1]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HjuJA-0006Ol-O9; Fri, 04 May 2007 05:42:37 -0400 Original-Received: from a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de [134.93.134.92]) by a1iwww1.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l449gR9N012589; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:42:27 +0200 Original-Received: from a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.0/8.13.4) with ESMTP id l449gQCb024944; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:42:27 +0200 Original-Received: (from ulm@localhost) by a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de (8.14.1/8.14.1/Submit) id l449gQjh024938; Fri, 4 May 2007 11:42:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> X-Mailer: VM 7.19-devo-282 under Emacs 22.0.99.1 X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70536 Archived-At: >>>>> On Fri, 04 May 2007, David Kastrup wrote: > I know that there are a few prepacked "Emacs-23" variants around: > would it be acceptable to the maintainers of those if the unicode-2 > branch were to go through a period of relative instability caused by > the merge of multitty? Gentoo currently has live CVS packages app-editors/emacs-cvs-23.0.0* for Linux and FreeBSD. There is also demand from users for integration of multi-tty (see for example ). So yes, it would be acceptable for us. Ulrich From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 12:14:23 +0200 Message-ID: <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178273681 14228 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 10:14:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:14:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jason Rumney Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 12:14:38 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hjuo4-00062E-H8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 12:14:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjuug-0007Dt-Qa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:21:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjuue-0007Do-9W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:21:20 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjuub-0007Dc-II for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:21:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjuub-0007DZ-Ez for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:21:17 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hjuny-00039o-4A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:14:26 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (pd95b0fdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.91.15.219]) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17856 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 12:14:21 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 10005 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 10:14:23 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 May 2007 10:14:23 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 55B238F95C; Fri, 4 May 2007 12:14:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> (Jason Rumney's message of "Fri\, 04 May 2007 10\:41\:29 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70538 Archived-At: Jason Rumney writes: > David Kastrup wrote: >> I know that there are a few prepacked "Emacs-23" variants around: >> would it be acceptable to the maintainers of those if the unicode-2 >> branch were to go through a period of relative instability caused by >> the merge of multitty? >>=20=20=20 > > Since multitty has never been in CVS, it hasn't had as widespread > testing as unicode-2, especially on non-unix/GNU platforms. So it is > probably better to create a new branch, and first import the multitty > code from its current repository, then merge in the unicode-2 > changes. Once that branch is stable, we can abandon the unicode-2 > branch and use the new branch for all "future" development. Since the file structure of the multitty branch supposedly will see no further changes, an import into CVS will probably not make development harder. K=E1roly, do you think you could create a branch and do that with an updated version of the multitty stuff? There is probably little sense in importing your personal change history. Since the goal after the multitty merge would be merging unicode-2, it would likely make sense to name the branch multitty-unicode-2. Since this step would more or less imply a bit of passing of responsibility for the multitty work, this basically makes sense only if there is a non-zero number of developers who would be willing to spend the time necessary for occasionally synching to HEAD while HEAD still changes (as long as HEAD does not diverge from the release branch, this should not be too much work, and once it is allowed to substantially diverge, it would be time to replace it by the multitty-unicode-2 branch, anyway). There will also be the one-time work to merge unicode-2 into it. Since both multitty and unicode-2 are currently close to HEAD and the functional overlap of the branches is small, the initial merge should likely not require an overwhelming amount of manual work. Getting the merge to actually work might be a different thing, however. It is likely that people (like myself) who have grown accustomed to using their CVS version of Emacs also for production work will have to keep a binary from the HEAD branch around for a while until the merge has converged to a reasonably compilable and crash-free state. But I think this should be doable. It also does not appear to me like the pace of the Emacs 22.1 release would be significantly affected by this diversion of developers moving to a new branch. >>From a project management point of view, it could possibly make more sense to actually do this work in HEAD. While I personally consider the point of the release branching to have been that HEAD can move on to the next development phase, this will be Richard's call to make. Creating a separate multitty-unicode-2 branch leaves open the choice when to move the HEAD attention (usually the principal focus of developer interest) to the remaining Emacs 23 work. --=20 David Kastrup From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty (was: html-mode demanding a bit too tight) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:39:56 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178275216 19232 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 10:40:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 10:40:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 12:40:15 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HjvCt-0002BU-EF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 12:40:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjvJV-0007Mq-SY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:47:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjvJS-0007Ml-Bi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:46:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjvJP-0007Kg-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:46:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjvJP-0007Kc-Mq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:46:55 -0400 Original-Received: from heller.inter.net.il ([213.8.233.23]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HjvCl-0007fp-OU; Fri, 04 May 2007 06:40:04 -0400 Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 (IGLD-80-230-228-78.inter.net.il [80.230.228.78]) by heller.inter.net.il (MOS 3.7.3a-GA) with ESMTP id CMW42123 (AUTH halo1); Fri, 4 May 2007 13:39:55 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> (message from David Kastrup on Fri, 04 May 2007 11:13:27 +0200) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 4.7-5.2 (or MacOS X 10.2-10.4) (2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70539 Archived-At: > From: David Kastrup > Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:13:27 +0200 > > While the release is "imminent", letting HEAD and the release branch > diverge would likely be impolite. ??? I thought the main reason for cutting the release branch was to allow development on the trunk without affecting the release. So what's impolite about committing changes on the trunk now? > Would it be better etiquette to create or use a different mailing list > than this one for discussing such work on the unicode-2 branch? Please don't start another schism. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 13:12:50 +0200 Message-ID: <86k5vo266l.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178277181 26044 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 11:13:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:13:01 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 13:12:59 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hjvid-00006l-40 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 13:12:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HjvpF-0002YB-Nm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 07:19:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HjvpB-0002Xw-E8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 07:19:45 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjvp9-0002Xc-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 07:19:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hjvp9-0002XZ-Oe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 07:19:43 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HjviW-0003jy-5N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 07:12:52 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (pd95b0fdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.91.15.219]) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19571 for ; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:12:47 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 12641 invoked from network); 4 May 2007 11:12:50 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 May 2007 11:12:50 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 2386A8F95C; Fri, 4 May 2007 13:12:50 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri\, 04 May 2007 13\:39\:56 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70540 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: David Kastrup >> Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 11:13:27 +0200 >> >> While the release is "imminent", letting HEAD and the release >> branch diverge would likely be impolite. > > ??? I thought the main reason for cutting the release branch was to > allow development on the trunk without affecting the release. So > what's impolite about committing changes on the trunk now? We are not talking about "committing changes" but a branch merge. At the current point of time, the decision "commit to both HEAD and RELEASE_22 branch or just one" is easy to make on a case by case base. After merging a branch into HEAD, this will become harder. Since we have had quite a few commits into both locations that clearly are not prerelease fixes, it pretty much requires Richard to decide what should go where in the case of those two. But Richard is a scarce resource, so it does not make sense that everybody waits for his word on everything. Things would be different if Richard clearly stated that we can commence with the _serious_ work on HEAD. So instead of having developers idle until such a time, I proposed creating a branch for the impeding work. Personally, I would consider HEAD the more logical choice. Which of the two it should be is Richard's call. Doing neither would seem like a waste of developer resources. >> Would it be better etiquette to create or use a different mailing >> list than this one for discussing such work on the unicode-2 >> branch? > > Please don't start another schism. A schism? Thinking about how developers can start working in the previously agreed upon way without disrupting those who still are focused on the delayed release process seems hardly like a schism. There seems to be little sense in most developers idling while the remaining problems concerning the release are still being sorted out. Emacs has a variety of branches in CVS: those hardly constitute schisms. There is currently a separate mailing list for the multitty branch (which is not yet in CVS but really should go there now, I think): discussion of its problems have been kept off this list for now. I don't think that it is amiss to ask whether the merge discussion should go on there, here or elsewhere. -- David Kastrup From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:46:51 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178311646 27629 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 20:47:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:47:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Jason Rumney To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 22:47:23 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hk4gR-00021M-3J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 22:47:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk4n6-0007ns-DS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 16:54:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk4n3-0007nm-1q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 16:54:09 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk4n0-0007nZ-Vt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 16:54:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk4n0-0007nW-RN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 16:54:06 -0400 Original-Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk ([195.41.46.235]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk4gE-0002GZ-4V; Fri, 04 May 2007 16:47:06 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (0x503e2644.bynxx19.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.62.38.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F93CFAC048; Fri, 4 May 2007 22:47:03 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Fri\, 04 May 2007 12\:14\:23 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70547 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Since the goal after the multitty merge would be merging unicode-2, it > would likely make sense to name the branch multitty-unicode-2. This sounds rather silly to me. Since we have branched for Emacs 22.1, that branch should be used for possible updates (22.2, 22.3, etc) --- just like the 21_RC branch was used for the 21.2, 21.3, and 21.4 releases. IMO (which obviously don't count at present), the trunk should be opened NOW for those who want to work on 23.1, i.e. unicode-2 and multitty should be merged to TRUNK as soon as possible. Maybe you don't need to import the multitty changes as a branch in CVS. I suppose that the changes can be committed directly on the TRUNK as a (big) set of changes - and just describe the changes in the relevant ChangeLog files. [That's how it would have been done if we had had a sane release procedure]. BTW, on TRUNK, the NEWS file should be renamed to NEWS.22 and a new NEWS file should be created. The ChangeLog files should also be renamed and new files created. Note: The arch tag follows to the renamed files -- making future merging from the EMACS_22 branch trivial to merge back to the TRUNK via arch. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty (was: html-mode demanding a bit too tight) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 17:18:07 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178313757 2416 80.91.229.12 (4 May 2007 21:22:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 21:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 04 23:22:36 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hk5EZ-0001Lr-Fp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 23:22:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk5LE-0004ut-WE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:29:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk5Jj-0003Kp-N9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk5Ji-0003JV-V6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk5Ji-0003Ix-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:27:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk5D2-0007AZ-E9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:21:00 -0400 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk5AF-00029g-5K; Fri, 04 May 2007 17:18:07 -0400 In-reply-to: <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> (message from David Kastrup on Fri, 04 May 2007 11:13:27 +0200) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70553 Archived-At: This ominous remark makes little sense unless there is no intent of actually releasing Emacs 22.1 in the foreseeable future. That is a mistake. If all your message is predicated on that mistake, then I think it is misguided. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 02:17:58 +0200 Message-ID: <85mz0kw2bt.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178324838 2112 80.91.229.12 (5 May 2007 00:27:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 00:27:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 05 02:27:17 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hk87H-0006TB-U5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 02:27:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Dy-0000C9-Cd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:34:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Dv-0000BE-7p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:34:07 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Du-00009k-9B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:34:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Du-00009h-6K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:34:06 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk87D-0001b7-2A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:27:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=lola.goethe.zz) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk84J-0008LX-Tf; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:24:12 -0400 Original-Received: by lola.goethe.zz (Postfix, from userid 1002) id BEB811D4E815; Sat, 5 May 2007 02:17:58 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri\, 04 May 2007 17\:18\:07 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70556 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > This ominous remark makes little sense unless there is no intent of > actually releasing Emacs 22.1 in the foreseeable future. > > That is a mistake. If all your message is predicated on that > mistake, then I think it is misguided. Then it would appear that I picked a bad guide. Whatever. However, the fact remains that we already branched for release, and that several developers don't feel they can contribute anything useful anymore to make the release of 22.1 happen. So it would seem that their energies would better be invested by starting with the work that was intended to be done after the branch split, namely merging the multitty branch into the trunk first, and unicode-2 afterwards. That was the point of branching, after all. Would you agree that this seems like the sensible thing to do now for them? If not, what else? It would at least seem to be conducive to make Emacs 23.1 happen earlier, and we certainly could gather some points among Emacs fans if we did our best to let 23.1 happen faster than 22.1. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 02:26:16 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <85irb8w1xz.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178325020 2547 80.91.229.12 (5 May 2007 00:30:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 00:30:20 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 05 02:30:19 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hk8AE-0006rF-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 02:30:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Gu-0006G1-B6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:37:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Gq-0006B1-I1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Gp-0006Ap-1K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:37:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk8Go-0006Am-Sg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:37:06 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hk8A7-0001uR-JM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 May 2007 20:30:11 -0400 Original-Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Hk89y-0008Bm-Qa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 02:30:05 +0200 Original-Received: from dslb-084-061-053-012.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.61.53.12]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 May 2007 02:30:02 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by dslb-084-061-053-012.pools.arcor-ip.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 May 2007 02:30:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 14 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: dslb-084-061-053-012.pools.arcor-ip.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:q51tXqcWdgeaQdRle5ZEvedX+v8= X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70557 Archived-At: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > David Kastrup writes: > >> Since the goal after the multitty merge would be merging unicode-2, >> it would likely make sense to name the branch multitty-unicode-2. > > This sounds rather silly to me. You are right. I just have the feeling that the sane choices are more or less blocked. -- David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 17:54:33 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178402087 15289 80.91.229.12 (5 May 2007 21:54:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 21:54:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jason Rumney , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 05 23:54:46 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1HkSDF-0002cp-LA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 23:54:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkSK2-00030t-AP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 18:01:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HkSJy-0002xY-7z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 18:01:42 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1HkSJw-0002sv-It for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 18:01:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HkSJw-0002sc-GH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2007 18:01:40 -0400 Original-Received: from tomts36.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.93] helo=tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HkSD5-0007TM-GW; Sat, 05 May 2007 17:54:35 -0400 Original-Received: from ceviche.home ([70.55.144.23]) by tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.13 201-253-122-130-113-20050324) with ESMTP id <20070505215434.GLDX1612.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@ceviche.home>; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:54:34 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B9E54B54D3; Sat, 5 May 2007 17:54:33 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Kim F. Storm's message of "Fri\, 04 May 2007 22\:46\:51 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Solaris 8 (1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70567 Archived-At: > Maybe you don't need to import the multitty changes as a branch > in CVS. I suppose that the changes can be committed directly on the > TRUNK as a (big) set of changes. I might be sufficient, but I think it might also be worthwhile to first commit it on a separate branch and then try and merge it. It just seems conceptually cleaner, leaving a clear and recognizable trace of the branch before it was merged. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 11:55:27 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178531757 7978 80.91.229.12 (7 May 2007 09:55:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:55:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Jason Rumney To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 07 11:55:55 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hkzwg-0002NF-5p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 11:55:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl03d-0004sp-4x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:03:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl03V-0004qZ-L4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:02:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl03U-0004pA-JD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:02:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl03U-0004oz-DB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:02:56 -0400 Original-Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk ([195.41.46.236]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1HkzwT-0000Tz-S5; Mon, 07 May 2007 05:55:42 -0400 Original-Received: from kfs-l.imdomain.dk.cua.dk (0x503e2644.bynxx19.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk [80.62.38.68]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CD76CA5007B; Mon, 7 May 2007 11:55:37 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat\, 05 May 2007 17\:54\:33 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Error: This connection is not (no longer?) in the cache. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70612 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> Maybe you don't need to import the multitty changes as a branch >> in CVS. I suppose that the changes can be committed directly on the >> TRUNK as a (big) set of changes. > > I might be sufficient, but I think it might also be worthwhile to first > commit it on a separate branch and then try and merge it. > It just seems conceptually cleaner, leaving a clear and recognizable trace > of the branch before it was merged. For that, you can just put a "BEFORE_MULTITTY_MERGE" tag on the trunk. -- Kim F. Storm http://www.cua.dk From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: unicode-2 and multitty Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 12:09:33 +0200 Message-ID: <86bqgxymg2.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> References: <87647ooxwm.fsf@zip.com.au> <462CC030.8030203@gmail.com> <87mz0y8vyk.fsf@zip.com.au> <86vef90x54.fsf_-_@lola.quinscape.zz> <463AFFC9.90307@gnu.org> <86r6pw28w0.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1178532593 10928 80.91.229.12 (7 May 2007 10:09:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:09:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Jason Rumney , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 07 12:09:51 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hl0AA-0004fG-Py for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 12:09:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl0H6-0000MG-MN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:17:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl0H2-0000Lq-Sq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:16:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl0H1-0000Ld-4W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:16:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hl0H0-0000La-Su for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:16:54 -0400 Original-Received: from pc3.berlin.powerweb.de ([62.67.228.11]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hl0A0-0001se-ST for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 May 2007 06:09:42 -0400 Original-Received: from quinscape.de (pd95b0fdb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.91.15.219]) by pc3.berlin.powerweb.de (8.9.3p3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14200 for ; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:09:31 +0200 X-Delivered-To: Original-Received: (qmail 30221 invoked from network); 7 May 2007 10:09:34 -0000 Original-Received: from unknown (HELO lola.quinscape.zz) ([10.0.3.43]) (envelope-sender ) by ns.quinscape.de (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 7 May 2007 10:09:34 -0000 Original-Received: by lola.quinscape.zz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1AF808F95C; Mon, 7 May 2007 12:09:34 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Kim F. Storm's message of "Mon\, 07 May 2007 11\:55\:27 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:70614 Archived-At: storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes: > Stefan Monnier writes: > >>> Maybe you don't need to import the multitty changes as a branch >>> in CVS. I suppose that the changes can be committed directly on the >>> TRUNK as a (big) set of changes. >> >> I might be sufficient, but I think it might also be worthwhile to first >> commit it on a separate branch and then try and merge it. >> It just seems conceptually cleaner, leaving a clear and recognizable tra= ce >> of the branch before it was merged. > > For that, you can just put a "BEFORE_MULTITTY_MERGE" tag on the trunk. The disadvantage is that while the merge is in progress, the trunk will not be usable. However, a) unless I am mistaken, K=E1roly's version of the multitty code _is_ essentially merged with the trunk already (though trunk moves onward). The merge will just be concerned with stuff checked in since the last synch. b) if trunk does not work right away, this would be a strong incentive for people to fix this. So we basically need two things to go ahead a) K=E1roly's opinion of the state of his archive, and his possible resources/involvement for putting the stuff into branch or trunk. b) the "go ahead" from Richard. While Richard has been looking for a maintainer for 23.x, it would appear to me that actually commencing the merge would not require a previous appointment of a different maintainer. --=20 David Kastrup