Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL (was: Re: Shipping the illustrated tutorial with Emacs 22?)

Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL (was: Re: Shipping the illustrated tutorial with Emacs 22?)

[Jason Spiro]

2007/2/22, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>:
> I hesitate to add anything to Emacs 22 now.  We want to make a release
> very soon.

Would it be practical to at least add a line of plain text to the
splash screen: "The illustrated guided tour is at
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/"?  I can send a patch to implement
this if you like.

(I hope you don't mind that I'm so persistent in my quest to inform as
many Emacs users as possible about this tutorial.  It's because too
much of the material currently available is drab and text-only and
focuses on keybindings for basic editing and perhaps a few major
modes.  This guided tour, however, is concise (well, at least the
slides are), graphical, and covers more than just the basics,
including features for coders like M-x compile, M-x gdb, and tramp.
IMO it is the best way to educate newbies on what Emacs has to offer.)

-- 
Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide.
Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
+1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info@jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro@hotmail.com

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Chong Yidong]

"Jason Spiro" <jasonspiro4@gmail.com> writes:

> Would it be practical to at least add a line of plain text to the
> splash screen: "The illustrated guided tour is at
> http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/"?  I can send a patch to implement
> this if you like.

Please, no.  Emacs 22 might be in use for years; there's no guarantee
that URL will be up for an equivalent period of time.

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Jason Spiro]

2007/4/13, Chong Yidong <cyd@stupidchicken.com> wrote:
> "Jason Spiro" <jasonspiro4@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Would it be practical to at least add a line of plain text to the
> > splash screen: "The illustrated guided tour is at
> > http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/"?  I can send a patch to implement
> > this if you like.
>
> Please, no.  Emacs 22 might be in use for years; there's no guarantee
> that URL will be up for an equivalent period of time.
>

OK, would it possible to create a website
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour and mention that URL instead?
It'd be best if the website is simply an Apache redirect to
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/ for now because Phil and I will be
improving the material and/or changing the official file location to
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Software_documentation in
the near future.  And perhaps someone might one day make a
talking-head and/or screencast-style video tour in a Free file format;
if so, I'll get it linked there too.

-- 
Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide.
Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
+1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info@jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro@hotmail.com

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Would it be practical to at least add a line of plain text to the
>> splash screen: "The illustrated guided tour is at
>> http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/"?  I can send a patch to implement
>> this if you like.

> Please, no.  Emacs 22 might be in use for years; there's no guarantee
> that URL will be up for an equivalent period of time.

We could probably put a link to "online documentation and tutorials" that
points to http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs and then add a link to
stuff.mit.edu there.


        Stefan

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Jason Spiro]

2007/4/13, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>:
> >> Would it be practical to at least add a line of plain text to the
> >> splash screen: "The illustrated guided tour is at
> >> http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/"?  I can send a patch to implement
> >> this if you like.
>
> > Please, no.  Emacs 22 might be in use for years; there's no guarantee
> > that URL will be up for an equivalent period of time.
>
> We could probably put a link to "online documentation and tutorials" that
> points to http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs and then add a link to
> stuff.mit.edu there.
>
That's fair, but IMHO the guided tour is the best introduction to
Emacs available on the entire Internet and so there should be a line
advertising it on the splash screen, just as there is a line
advertising the, um, keyboard tutorial.  :)  This will encourage
people to look at it, not just at the built-in tutorial.  As Philippe
wrote at [1], "I need effectiveness, *not* mere efficiency.  I was
scared by the official emacs tutorial, which starts spitting out
bunches of keyboard sequences without apparent meaning."  A line on
the splash screen will encourage people to look at the guided tour,
not the C-h t tutorial, first.

Cheers,
Jason

[1] http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.emacs/browse_thread/thread/47fd064346cc8afc#cbaedb766f4c3171

-- 
Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide.
Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
+1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info@jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro@hotmail.com

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Leo]

----- Jason Spiro (2007-04-13) wrote:-----

>  > that URL will be up for an equivalent period of time.
>>
>> We could probably put a link to "online documentation and tutorials" that
>> points to http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs and then add a link to
>> stuff.mit.edu there.
>>
> That's fair, but IMHO the guided tour is the best introduction to
> Emacs available on the entire Internet and so there should be a line
> advertising it on the splash screen, just as there is a line
> advertising the, um, keyboard tutorial.  :)  This will encourage
> people to look at it, not just at the built-in tutorial.  As Philippe
> wrote at [1], "I need effectiveness, *not* mere efficiency.  I was
> scared by the official emacs tutorial, which starts spitting out
> bunches of keyboard sequences without apparent meaning."  A line on
> the splash screen will encourage people to look at the guided tour,
> not the C-h t tutorial, first.

I also feel that document is the best for beginners and it will be nice
to put in a noticeable place.

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Richard Stallman]

Let's put the guided tour on gnu.org.
Then we can mention it on the splash screen, in the Emacs manual,
and maybe at the start of TUTORIAL.

However, I'd rather have the material on gnu.org, not a redirect.
Using a redirect is risky, as I have learned from hard experience.
Please tell chief-webmaster@gnu.org where to find it, and he will
set it up.  He will also tell you how to get new versions installed.

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Phil Sung]

On 4/14/07, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> Let's put the guided tour on gnu.org.
>
> Please tell chief-webmaster@gnu.org where to find it, and he will
> set it up.  He will also tell you how to get new versions installed.

I've posted a tarball of the guided tour here:
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/emacs-guided-tour.tar.gz

It contains the slides in PDF (and ODP) as well as a longer HTML version.

--Phil

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Richard Stallman]

Has it got GFDL licensing?
If not, let's put that on it before we post it.

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Jason Spiro]

2007/4/15, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>:
> Has it got GFDL licensing?
> If not, let's put that on it before we post it.

Yes, it is tri-licensed.  One of the three licenses is the GFDL.

-- 
Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide.
Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
+1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info@jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro@hotmail.com

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Richard Stallman]

    Yes, it is tri-licensed.  One of the three licenses is the GFDL.

I will have to take a look at that licensing issue before we post it.
To use three licenses in parallel is probably not a good idea.  It
wouldn't be proper for the FSF to use such a license without
considering the question.

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Phil Sung]

On 4/16/07, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> To use three licenses in parallel is probably not a good idea.

Out of curiosity, what exactly is the issue?
If it matters at all, the other licenses are GPL and MIT/X11.

--Phil

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Jason Spiro]

2007/4/17, Phil Sung <psung@mit.edu>:
> On 4/16/07, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> > To use three licenses in parallel is probably not a good idea.
>
> Out of curiosity, what exactly is the issue?
> If it matters at all, the other licenses are GPL and MIT/X11.

And if it matters, here are the license terms Phil states at
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/ for the tri-licensing:

Copyright (c) 2007 Phil Sung or the Free Software Foundation.

You may use this Work under the GNU Free Documentation License,
version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software
Foundation (at your option); or the GNU General Public License,
version 2 or any later version published by the Free Software
Foundation (at your option); or the MIT (X11) License.

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[David Kastrup]

"Jason Spiro" <jasonspiro4@gmail.com> writes:

> 2007/4/17, Phil Sung <psung@mit.edu>:
>> On 4/16/07, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
>> > To use three licenses in parallel is probably not a good idea.
>>
>> Out of curiosity, what exactly is the issue?
>> If it matters at all, the other licenses are GPL and MIT/X11.
>
> And if it matters, here are the license terms Phil states at
> http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/ for the tri-licensing:
>
> Copyright (c) 2007 Phil Sung or the Free Software Foundation.

Well, that line is incorrect.  He has assigned the copyright.  If he
added parts afterwards that are not assigned, then this should be
Copyright (c) 2007 Free Software Foundation
Copyright (c) 2007 Phil Sung
If he didn't add such parts, he has no copyright.  He can then only
write
"Author: Phil Sung"
or "Written by Phil Sung"
or such.  The copyright then rests with the FSF, which is the whole
point of the procedure.

In any case, "or" is nothing to use in a copyright notice: the user
can't pick by whom the work is copyrighted: that is certainly fixed.

> You may use this Work under the GNU Free Documentation License,
> version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software
> Foundation (at your option); or the GNU General Public License,
> version 2 or any later version published by the Free Software
> Foundation (at your option); or the MIT (X11) License.

This part is correct, though it should probably specify the version of
the MIT license.

-- 
David Kastrup

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Phil Sung]

On 4/19/07, David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> wrote:
> Well, that line is incorrect.  He has assigned the copyright.  If he
> added parts afterwards that are not assigned, then this should be
> Copyright (c) 2007 Free Software Foundation
> Copyright (c) 2007 Phil Sung

Sorry. That is what I should have written. --Phil

Re: [rms] Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Matt Lee]

Richard Stallman wrote:

> I will have to take a look at that licensing issue before we post it.
> To use three licenses in parallel is probably not a good idea.  It
> wouldn't be proper for the FSF to use such a license without
> considering the question.

Richard,

Please let me know when you're happy with the licensing, so I can get 
this posted.

matt

-- 
Matt Lee <mattl@gnu.org>
Chief Webmaster - GNU Project - http://www.gnu.org/
Free Software Foundation - Free as in Freedom - http://www.fsf.org/
Get involved in revising the GNU GPL - http://gplv3.fsf.org/
Stop Windows Vista adoption, promote free software - http://badvista.org

GNU/Linux is an operating system, Linux is its kernel
    - http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

Open Source misses the point
    - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Jason Spiro]

2007/4/24, Matt Lee <mattl@gnu.org>:
> Richard Stallman wrote:
>
> > I will have to take a look at that licensing issue before we post it.
> > To use three licenses in parallel is probably not a good idea.  It
> > wouldn't be proper for the FSF to use such a license without
> > considering the question.
>
> Richard,
>
> Please let me know when you're happy with the licensing, so I can get
> this posted.

Hi Richard,

The current license text from Phil's tour webpage[1] follows.  Is it
OK?  (I do hope the tour can be mirrored and the splash screen can be
changed before the Emacs 22 release.)  Regards, --Jason

"Copyright (c) 2007 Phil Sung.
"Copyright (c) 2007 Free Software Foundation.

"Permission is granted to copy, distribute, and/or modify this work
under the GNU Free Documentation License, version 1.2 or (at your
option) any later version published by the Free Software Foundation,
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts; or the GNU General Public License, version 2 or (at your
option) any later version published by the Free Software Foundation."

[1] http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Phil Sung]

On 4/30/07, Jason Spiro <jasonspiro4@gmail.com> wrote:
> The current license text from Phil's tour webpage[1] follows.  Is it
> OK?  (I do hope the tour can be mirrored and the splash screen can be
> changed before the Emacs 22 release.)

Richard OK'd the licensing (off emacs-devel) and I think we are just
waiting on the webmaster now.

--Phil

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Matt Lee]

Phil Sung wrote:

> Richard OK'd the licensing (off emacs-devel) and I think we are just
> waiting on the webmaster now.

I've asked one of the webmasters to work on this. I will check where he 
is with things.

matt

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Richard Stallman]

I am happy with the licensing.  Chief webmaster, could you please
make sure this gets installed on www.gnu.org ASAP?

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Matzi Kratzi]

The link for "Installing Emacs" points to a page which suggests the
user to use Lennart Borgman's patched emacs for ms windows. It really
is his own distribution. Are you really aware of that?

/Mats

On 5/1/07, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> I am happy with the licensing.  Chief webmaster, could you please
> make sure this gets installed on www.gnu.org ASAP?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-devel mailing list
> Emacs-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel
>

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Matzi Kratzi]

http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/setup.html
http://ourcomments.org/Emacs/EmacsW32Util.html


On 5/1/07, Matzi Kratzi <matzikratzi@gmail.com> wrote:
> The link for "Installing Emacs" points to a page which suggests the
> user to use Lennart Borgman's patched emacs for ms windows. It really
> is his own distribution. Are you really aware of that?
>
> /Mats
>
> On 5/1/07, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
> > I am happy with the licensing.  Chief webmaster, could you please
> > make sure this gets installed on www.gnu.org ASAP?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emacs-devel mailing list
> > Emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel
> >
>

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Phil Sung]

On 5/1/07, Matzi Kratzi <matzikratzi@gmail.com> wrote:
> The link for "Installing Emacs" points to a page which suggests the
> user to use Lennart Borgman's patched emacs for ms windows. It really
> is his own distribution. Are you really aware of that?

Only the slides titled "Guided Tour of Emacs" are being posted (I
believe...) and those include no such link. --Phil

http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/emacs-guided-tour-1.pdf
http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/emacs-guided-tour-1.odp

Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[Richard Stallman]

    The link for "Installing Emacs" points to a page which suggests the
    user to use Lennart Borgman's patched emacs for ms windows. It really
    is his own distribution. Are you really aware of that?

I asked our webmaster to correct that when he installs it.

Re: [rms] Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's

[Matt Lee]

Richard Stallman wrote:
> I am happy with the licensing.  Chief webmaster, could you please
> make sure this gets installed on www.gnu.org ASAP?

This is now done. I'm sure there are a couple of things that still need 
fixing, but we can deal with those in the normal webmastering process.

http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/

I've also put http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ into the new style 
template.

Send bug reports to webmasters@gnu.org :)

matt

Re: [rms] Re: [rms] Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's

[Jason Spiro]

2007/5/2, Matt Lee <mattl@gnu.org>:
> Richard Stallman wrote:
> > I am happy with the licensing.  Chief webmaster, could you please
> > make sure this gets installed on www.gnu.org ASAP?
>
> This is now done. I'm sure there are a couple of things that still need
> fixing, but we can deal with those in the normal webmastering process.
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/

Excellent!  Thank you.

> I've also put http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ into the new style
> template.
>
> Send bug reports to webmasters@gnu.org :)

Or, feedback on the tour can be posted at:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image_talk:Emacs-guided-tour-1.pdf
-- just click the "+" tab at top of page.

Now that the tour is finally up, let's mention it on the Emacs 22
splash screen.  Who will do it?

-- 
Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
I provide software development and training services to clients worldwide.
Contact me for a FREE consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
+1 (416) 781-5938 / Email: info@jspiro.com / MSN: jasonspiro@hotmail.com

Re: Adding a line to the splash screen with the guided tour's URL

[chad brown]

I can practically guarantee that that URL will stop working soon, in  
the time scale of Emacs releases.

IAP is MIT's Independant Activities Period, a sort of open-study  
period every January.  People (students, professors, researchers,  
alum, etc) both give and take sessions on all sorts of topics during  
IAP, changing from year to year.   Thus, that particular session  
might be taught only one year, or maybe a few years, but its unlikely  
(not impossible) to last as long as, say, the last emacs release.

As I understand it, we already got permission to use the guide for  
emacs if we wanted to host it somewhere else.  If that's not the  
case, I could ask the author about giving us such rights.

*chad

On Apr 13, 2007, at 12:15 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>>> Would it be practical to at least add a line of plain text to the
>>> splash screen: "The illustrated guided tour is at
>>> http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/emacs/"?  I can send a patch to implement
>>> this if you like.
>
>> Please, no.  Emacs 22 might be in use for years; there's no guarantee
>> that URL will be up for an equivalent period of time.