From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Customizable modes and package.el Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:09:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <461a15b7-6e18-4ffc-b059-d1decc25275c@default> References: <87fv8mcz6h.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427735446 2827 80.91.229.3 (30 Mar 2015 17:10:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:10:46 +0000 (UTC) To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com, emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 30 19:10:33 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YcdCk-00059q-8h for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 19:10:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35246 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YcdCj-0005PE-Dv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:10:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49486) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YcdCQ-0005Ha-Ee for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:10:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YcdCK-0005x5-H6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:10:06 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:45973) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YcdCK-0005wD-9r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:10:00 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t2UH9rP6008297 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:09:53 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2UH9rlT022070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:09:53 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t2UH9rDB017553; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 17:09:53 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:184556 Archived-At: > > > `package-initialize' could look into some file like > > > ~/.emacs.d/package-init.el and load that before initializing. > > > > Please, not Yet Another File That Changes Emacs' Behaviour > The file would not exist unless the user manually created it.=20 > I'm not thrilled at this solution, and I'm open to alternatives,=20 > but we have to do something.=20 This thread was started with a question about using Customize instead of requiring users to put Lisp code in their init files. The user asked, "What did I do wrong?" The answer is apparently that Emacs is not yet ready for you to use Customize to configure your use of package.el. That's what should be done, IMO, whether now or later: enable users to configure their use of package.el using Customize, without resorting to Lisp in init files. If for some reason that is not possible for all use cases, it should still be a goal for the most common use cases. I'd be among the first to say that good use of Emacs is very much about making use of Emacs Lisp, but do we need to force users to put code in their init files in order to make good use of the package system?