Re: Tutorial incorrectly thinks emacs -Q uses customizations. Alarmist and confusing tutorial intro.

["Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com>]

Drew Adams wrote:
> emacs -Q
> Help > Emacs Tutorial
> 
> You see this, in red, at the top:
> 
>  NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you
>  the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings).
>  However, your Emacs has been customized by changing some of
>  these basic editing commands, so it doesn't correspond to the
>  tutorial.  We have inserted colored notices where the altered
>  commands have been introduced. [More]
> 
> This is wrong - nothing has been customized in emacs -Q.


It is a bug. I have noticed it and have a fix for it, but I have not had 
time to send it to the list yet.


> The wording is also bad: "standard Emacs commands" are not the same
> thing as "key bindings".  So already we're teaching the vocabulary
> incorrectly.


Could you please propose a better text?


> Anyway... Clicking [More] then shows this:
> 
>  The following key bindings used in the tutorial had been changed
>  from the Emacs default in the TUTORIAL (English) buffer:
> 
>    Key       Standard Binding            Is Now On   Remark
>    <M-backspace> backward-kill-word      <C-backspace> more info
>    <backspace> delete-backward-char      DEL         more info
> 
>  It is OK to change key bindings, but changed bindings do not
>  correspond to what the tutorial says.
> 
> This is also wrong: "had been changed" is incorrect grammatically
> here.  Perhaps "have" was meant.


I am not quite sure "had" is incorrect here. The state of the TUTORIAL 
buffer may have changed since the link was created. Is not "had" the 
correct word then? Or how would you say it?


>  What is the point of "from the Emacs
> default in the TUTORIAL (English) buffer"?  Buffer?  English?  Why is
> TUTORIAL uppercase?  I don't understand this sentence AT ALL.


Would it be more understandable like this

    from the Emacs default in the buffer "TUTORIAL (English)":

"TUTORIAL (English)" is simply the name of the tutorial buffer.

Or maybe it is better just to say

    from the Emacs default:

Even if this is more inexact it is actually not incorrect.


> What
> are we trying to say here?  And why are we telling the user that s?he
> can change bindings? (during the tutorial? in the future? in the past?)


These text should only be showed if some of the key bindings used in the 
tutorial have been changed. In other words they are only showed when the 
tutorial does not work.

We discussed what to do in this case earlier. We decided then that the 
best way to handle it was to tell the user about the problem. Other 
alternatives was to refuse to run the tutorial or to change the key 
bindings in the tutorial buffer so that they matched the tutorial.


> The help shown from clicking [More] is also not aligned well, as can
> be seen above.


Some more work can be done on this. It fails with very long names if I 
remember correctly now. But I felt this was good enough.


> It is also unclear: What does "Is Now On" mean?  What is now on what?
> Does it mean that the Standard Binding (command), which is the second
> column, is now on that key?  The order seems backward (German? ;-)).
> The order should be:
> 
> Command             Current Key    Standard Key (emacs -Q)
> -------             -----------    -----------------------
> backward-kill-word  <C-backspace>  <M-backspace>
> 
> Or, better perhaps (depending on what the intention is - I'm lost):
> 
> Key mentioned in tutorial  Key in your Emacs  Command
> -------------------------  -----------------  -------
> <M-backspace>              <C-backspace>      backward-kill-word
> 
> In any case, however this is done, it is bound to confuse.


I am not sure what is best. Of your proposals I like the first one best. 
  What do others think?


> Another bug, unrelated to the tutorial: Clicking `delete-backward-char' does
> not show its binding (DEL).  The doc string needs to mention this.


This is disturbing but maybe a bit hard to fix right now. I would rather 
put that in TO-DO for after the release.


> Clicking either of the "more info" links leads to further incorrect
> information...


Please tell what the incorrect information is.


> Most importantly:
> 
> Do we really need this?  What is the point of scaring users with a
> huge red "NOTICE", and inviting them to click for more information
> that details ALL of the bindings that are different from the default
> bindings.  (Not to mention that it does so erroneously.)


This was my idea so I guess I have to say something about it.

Yes, I believe we need it. The idea is simply to tell the user let the 
user run the tutorial even though some things have changed, but inform 
the user what has changed. I think without this the user may get very 
confused when the tutorial does not work.

Whether this is the best way to handle the problem with changed key 
bindings that affects the tutorial is another question (see above).


> This is crazy.  This is the FIRST thing that a newbie will see, when
> trying to learn about Emacs.


If no key bindings have been changed the user will not see this. (When 
the bug has been fixed.)


> Please, let's drop this or redo it completely.  If we keep it, it
> needs to be 1) simple, 2) unalarming, 3) obviously of secondary
> importance.  A tutorial should hold you by the hand in the beginning,
> not scare and confuse you.


IMO this is the wrong level to discuss it on. We should rather discuss 
the GUI instead and how that can be used to teach the user Emacs. After 
the release of course.