From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: National Language Support Functions Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:48:31 +0100 Message-ID: <459538CF.30100@gmail.com> References: <458AB581.7090303@student.lu.se> <458AF7AC.5030500@student.lu.se> <458B2295.7010806@student.lu.se> <4593C0B1.8060406@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dough.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1167407353 14063 80.91.229.10 (29 Dec 2006 15:49:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:49:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 29 16:49:12 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by dough.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H0Jyo-0001u8-6u for gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:49:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H0Jyn-0001NF-NA for gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:49:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H0JyH-000118-Oo for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:48:38 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H0JyF-0000y7-LO for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:48:37 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H0JyF-0000xm-G1; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:48:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [80.76.149.212] (helo=ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1H0JyD-00049T-Kc; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:48:34 -0500 Original-Received: from c83-254-145-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.254.145.24]:60117 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1H0JyB-0000Cy-5q; Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:48:32 +0100 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) Original-To: Eli Zaretskii In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0664-0, 2006-12-28), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1H0JyB-0000Cy-5q. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1H0JyB-0000Cy-5q a3a8f4370b998b52fe3f23a084ee4d74 X-BeenThere: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for CVS Emacs." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:16253 gmane.emacs.devel:64424 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:03:45 +0100 >> From: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" >> Cc: >> >> We never made any decision on this issue. Most of the answers pointed to >> that GetUserDefaultUILanguage is the correct function to use. Or am I >> just misinterpreting to confirm what I said at the beginning ;-) >> > > My conclusion is different. I think we do use the correct interface: > > GetLocaleInfo (LOCALE_USER_DEFAULT, LOCALE_SABBREVLANGNAME ... > > This queries the OS about the user-selected _language_ in the current > locale, so it's supposed to be akin to the Posix LANG parameter. > However, Microsoft have their i18n API hopelessly messed up, in that > they have too many different language-related settings, their mapping > to the related APIs is confusing and under-documented, and the > associated guidelines change with every Windows version (the clear > sign of the latter is that each new Windows version introduces another > bunch of new functions that return the language). > I think that MS just tries to adopt to different needs the users have. It is not productive to just dismiss the struggle MS have with this things. Maybe they are not doing things the best way, but that is a quite different matter. We should in my opinion try to do what the user wants. There are users who wants to read English but use another keyboard layout etc. For example Firefox and Thunderbird agrees on this, while GIMP does not. It looks to me that the users have had a much bigger impact in the case of Firefox and Thunderbird than when it comes to GIMP. Accessibility guidelines are for example followed in Firefox and Thunderbird but not in GIMP. What does GNOME do in this area? Does it allow the user to use a Swedish keyboard layout but still have English as the preferred language for text to show? > At least one user of those who reported the results of your program > (Jason) would be hurt by going to GetUserDefaultUILanguage. Also, > that API returns a language that cannot be easily changed, unlike the > language that we currently return (see above). > Yes, I saw Jasons problem. Could we look a bit closer at this? I did not understand the details so far. > So my conclusion is that we should leave things as they are. If it > annoys you that your system brings you the wrong tutorial, you can > either change the Windows language settings, or simply request the > tutorial in any language you like, with "C-u C-h t". > >