From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tooltips and menus Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 10:57:26 +0200 Message-ID: <4472CE76.3090401@swipnet.se> References: <874pzjkuap.fsf@mit.edu> <85wtce2ino.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4472ABC9.3070003@swipnet.se> <85mzd9ywh4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148374739 10385 80.91.229.2 (23 May 2006 08:58:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 08:58:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , cyd@mit.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 23 10:58:55 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FiSin-0006Is-FV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:58:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FiSim-0007Z7-UV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 04:58:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FiSiV-0007Ye-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 04:58:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FiSiU-0007YE-B3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 04:58:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FiSiU-0007YB-3h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 May 2006 04:58:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [81.228.8.183] (helo=av11-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FiSmb-0007o2-B1; Tue, 23 May 2006 05:02:29 -0400 Original-Received: by av11-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id E4FE73823E; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:58:08 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.92]) by av11-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65F438222; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:58:08 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from coolsville.localdomain (81-235-205-204-no59.tbcn.telia.com [81.235.205.204]) by smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CEBE37E47; Tue, 23 May 2006 10:58:08 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (X11/20060501) Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: <85mzd9ywh4.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:55112 Archived-At: David Kastrup skrev: > Jan Dj=E4rv writes: >=20 >> Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>>> From: David Kastrup >>>> >>>> I'd vote to keep them. >>> Same here. >> Since they are very uncommon in other applications, I vote for >> turning them of by default, with an option to turn them on. >=20 > The question is whether they are considered helpful in general, not > whether other applications have them. Emacs has a lot of things that > other applications don't. My vote to keep them was because I > considered them useful. Turning them off by default will, like most > other user convenience settings, have the effect that nobody ever > notices their availability. In particular those users who would > profit from them. I was kind of assuming that users don't find them useful and as a result = other=20 applications don't have them. But I may assume too much here. FWIW, I do find them annoying sometimes. They tend to obscure other menu= =20 entries. For the most part, they don't say any more than the menu entry=20 itself. For example Options =3D> Show/Hide =3D> Toolbar is pretty obviou= s. The=20 tool tip is "Turn tool-bar on/off" which adds nothing IMHO. Jan D. Jan D.