From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ben Wing Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta Subject: Re: thoughts on interaction of key bindings and input methods (was Re: wish: right alt/meta to switch keyboard layout while pressed) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:25:55 -0600 Message-ID: <438A94E3.7070603@666.com> References: <200511222150.54248.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <200511270101.56195.pogonyshev@gmx.net> <43891060.2070405@666.com> <200511271329.39650.pogonyshev@gmx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1133155856 7014 80.91.229.2 (28 Nov 2005 05:30:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:30:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Aidan Kehoe , XEmacs Beta , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 28 06:30:13 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgbWx-0004iL-58 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 06:26:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgbWw-0005ji-Ae for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:26:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EgbWn-0005iK-4i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:26:13 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EgbWm-0005hZ-Ft for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:26:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgbWm-0005hT-AZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:26:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [70.168.83.78] (helo=centrmmtao06.cox.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EgbWm-0002ZI-5L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:26:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [192.168.0.5] (really [68.0.175.25]) by centrmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20051128052449.GZQJ13557.centrmmtao06.cox.net@[192.168.0.5]>; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:24:49 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Original-To: Paul Pogonyshev In-Reply-To: <200511271329.39650.pogonyshev@gmx.net> X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:46690 gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:21249 Archived-At: Paul Pogonyshev wrote: >Ben Wing wrote: > > >>now, from personal experience: i have had many times when i've been in >>foreign countries and had to log on to the internet. typically, the >>punctuation is in a completely different place. i always switched to us >>layout, and found it nearly impossible to use any other layouts. i >>*definitely* would expect in such a case that keyboard shortcuts >>involving punctuation should follow the logical, not physical, layout -- >>but with the physical layout as a backup, so when i temporarily switch >>to russian, i can still type C-x. (with alphabetic keys, it is >>semi-feasible to search the keyboard in front of me to find the keys, >>but this is just impossible for punctuation.) >> >> > >I fail to see while it is impossible for punctuation > my experience was being in, e.g., thailand or morocco and trying to type url's and passwords and such with punctuation in them. places like this often type latin characters using the british or french or some other european layout. the location of the punctuation was completely random (from my perspective). characters like '@' can often be typed only using an AltGr combination. the keyboards often had multiple punctuation labels on each key, in different colors, corresponding to the different layouts that were most common. all of this made it just impossible to locate punctuation using an unfamiliar layout. it seems that we want to have some notion of "default" layout. in my case, i want the default layout to be us, no matter what the physical layout, but in your case you don't want things changing just because you temporarily switched the layout to russian. but i don't know if there is an easy solution for both cases. ben