Diropen toolbar icon

Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

Hello.

I've changed the diropen toolbar icon to the one suggested by Joachim 
Nilsson <joachim.nilsson@vmlinux.org>.  I didn't use his files, I did 
the conversion to get the same palette as used for the other icons to 
reduce the number of colors Emacs uses.  However, the color looks a bit 
odd to be.  If you think so also, please mention it, and I'll try to 
adjust it.

I was going to replace forward and back also to the old gthumb icons, 
but it looks like I've misplaced them.  I'll have to find an old version 
of gthumb again.

    Jan D.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Joachim Nilsson]

Jan D. wrote:
> I've changed the diropen toolbar icon to the one suggested by Joachim 
> Nilsson <joachim.nilsson@vmlinux.org>.  I didn't use his files, I did 
> the conversion to get the same palette as used for the other icons to 
> reduce the number of colors Emacs uses.

Thanks man!  I actually started working on a gimp script to automate the 
conversion process from Gnome stock icons to our xpm+pbm dito.  Never really 
got it good enough for public scrutiny though.

I almost accused a cow-worker today of snooping my root password and stealing 
my CVS-tree until he reassured me that the icon was part of the standard 
distribution.  :-)

> I was going to replace forward and back also to the old gthumb icons, 
> but it looks like I've misplaced them.  I'll have to find an old version 
> of gthumb again.

It wasn't these, by any chance?
http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gthumb/libgthumb/icons/?only_with_tag=gthumb-2-0

  /Jocke

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

>
>
>> I was going to replace forward and back also to the old gthumb  
>> icons, but it looks like I've misplaced them.  I'll have to find  
>> an old version of gthumb again.
>>
>
> It wasn't these, by any chance?
> http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gthumb/libgthumb/icons/? 
> only_with_tag=gthumb-2-0
>

Yes, I've found them, but forgot to convert and check them in. :-)   
Just so I don't have to re-read the old thread, did we intend these  
to replace back/forward history, or previos/next node?

     Jan D.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Juri Linkov]

> Just so I don't have to re-read the old thread, did we intend these
> to replace back/forward history, or previos/next node?

Do you mean replacing icons for Info?  Could you provide URLs of icons
that you think would replace the current icons?

At the cvs.gnome.org repository I can see only next-image-24.png
suitable for `Next Info node' and prev-image-24.png for `Previous Info
node', but not for back/forward history.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

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>> Just so I don't have to re-read the old thread, did we intend these
>> to replace back/forward history, or previos/next node?
>>
>
> Do you mean replacing icons for Info?  Could you provide URLs of icons
> that you think would replace the current icons?

Attached.

[-- Attachment #2: next-image-24.png --]
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[-- Attachment #3: prev-image-24.png --]
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>
> At the cvs.gnome.org repository I can see only next-image-24.png
> suitable for `Next Info node' and prev-image-24.png for `Previous Info
> node', but not for back/forward history.

The thing is that the current icons for back/forward history are  
Gnomes icons for undo and redo.  A suggestion is to use the attached  
icons for next/previos node, and the current next/previous node (only  
arrows) for back/forward history.  It would make Up a bit odd though.

     Jan D.




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Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Juri Linkov]

>> Do you mean replacing icons for Info?  Could you provide URLs of icons
>> that you think would replace the current icons?
>
> Attached.

Thanks.  These icons look like next-image-24.png and prev-image-24.png
files in the Gnome CVS repository.

> The thing is that the current icons for back/forward history are
> Gnomes icons for undo and redo.  A suggestion is to use the attached
> icons for next/previos node, and the current next/previous node (only
> arrows) for back/forward history.  It would make Up a bit odd though.

Yes, it would be good to have Up in the same style as Next and Previous.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

Juri Linkov wrote:

>>The thing is that the current icons for back/forward history are
>>Gnomes icons for undo and redo.  A suggestion is to use the attached
>>icons for next/previos node, and the current next/previous node (only
>>arrows) for back/forward history.  It would make Up a bit odd though.
>>    
>>
>
>Yes, it would be good to have Up in the same style as Next and Previous.
>
>  
>

I've added icons next/prev/up-node and use them in info now.  I use 
left/right-arrow for previous/next history.  If people dislike it too 
much it is easy to revert :-)

    Jan D.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Joachim Nilsson]

Jan D. wrote:
> Juri Linkov wrote:
>>> The thing is that the current icons for back/forward history are
>>> Gnomes icons for undo and redo.  A suggestion is to use the attached
>>> icons for next/previos node, and the current next/previous node (only
>>> arrows) for back/forward history.  It would make Up a bit odd though.
>> Yes, it would be good to have Up in the same style as Next and Previous.
> I've added icons next/prev/up-node and use them in info now.  I use 
> left/right-arrow for previous/next history.  If people dislike it too 
> much it is easy to revert :-)

Looks fine to me. (You rotated next-node 90° ccw to get up, didn't you? ;-)

Good job!
  /Jocke

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

4 nov 2005 kl. 20.01 skrev Joachim Nilsson:

> Jan D. wrote:

>> I've added icons next/prev/up-node and use them in info now.  I  
>> use left/right-arrow for previous/next history.  If people dislike  
>> it too much it is easy to revert :-)
>>
>
> Looks fine to me. (You rotated next-node 90° ccw to get up, didn't  
> you? ;-)
>

Of course.  No need to get complicated :-)

     Jan D.

>

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[David Kastrup]

"Jan D." <jan.h.d@swipnet.se> writes:

> 4 nov 2005 kl. 20.01 skrev Joachim Nilsson:
>
>> Jan D. wrote:
>
>>> I've added icons next/prev/up-node and use them in info now.  I
>>> use left/right-arrow for previous/next history.  If people dislike
>>> it too much it is easy to revert :-)
>>>
>>
>> Looks fine to me. (You rotated next-node 90° ccw to get up, didn't
>> you? ;-)
>>
>
> Of course.  No need to get complicated :-)

Except that drop shadows and similar light effects don't quite work right.

-- 
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

>
> Except that drop shadows and similar light effects don't quite work  
> right.


No.  I'm not a graphical designer, just trying to get something  
reasonable.

     Jan D.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Juri Linkov]

>>> It would make Up a bit odd though.
>>
>> Yes, it would be good to have Up in the same style as Next and Previous.
>
> I've added icons next/prev/up-node and use them in info now.  I use
> left/right-arrow for previous/next history.

Thanks.  I think these Next and Previous are better than old icons,
because they indicate that they have something to do with the document
rather than with the history.

> If people dislike it too much it is easy to revert :-)

Sorry, but I think this Up icon looks out of place when compared to
Next and Previous icons.  Next and Previous icons have arrows on the
paper sheet in Portrait mode, but Up icon is rotated to Landscape mode.
Could you leave the paper in Portrait mode, and to rotate only the arrow?

I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before next/prev/up-node.
The reason is that in most browsers previous/next history icons are closest
to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
are related to) are located on the right.

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

Juri Linkov wrote:

> Sorry, but I think this Up icon looks out of place when compared to
>
>Next and Previous icons.  Next and Previous icons have arrows on the
>paper sheet in Portrait mode, but Up icon is rotated to Landscape mode.
>Could you leave the paper in Portrait mode, and to rotate only the arrow?
>  
>

I've fixed that now.

>I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before next/prev/up-node.
>The reason is that in most browsers previous/next history icons are closest
>to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
>are related to) are located on the right.
>

That is an easy change.  Is this what others think also?

    Jan D.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Joachim Nilsson]

Jan D. wrote:
> Juri Linkov wrote:
>> I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before next/prev/up-node. 
>> The reason is that in most browsers previous/next history icons are closest
>> to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
>> are related to) are located on the right.
> That is an easy change.  Is this what others think also?

Yes, I agree.

Another thing,  the "Save" and "Save As..." buttons look a bit misaligned
vertically.  Maybe other icons are too.  Perhaps a baseline, or weight pos,
can be used to align all icons against.

Am I making any sense?

Regards
  /Jocke

P.S.
	Good job, btw!
D.S.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

Joachim Nilsson wrote:

> Jan D. wrote:
>
>> Juri Linkov wrote:
>>
>>> I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before 
>>> next/prev/up-node. The reason is that in most browsers previous/next 
>>> history icons are closest
>>> to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
>>> are related to) are located on the right.
>>
>> That is an easy change.  Is this what others think also?
>
>
> Yes, I agree.
>
> Another thing,  the "Save" and "Save As..." buttons look a bit misaligned
> vertically.  Maybe other icons are too.  Perhaps a baseline, or weight 
> pos,
> can be used to align all icons against. 


"Save" adjusted.

    Jan D.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Lennart Borgman]

Jan D. wrote:

>> The reason is that in most browsers previous/next history icons are 
>> closest
>> to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
>> are related to) are located on the right.
>>
> I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before 
> next/prev/up-node.
>
> That is an easy change.  Is this what others think also?

Yes, at least I think so too.

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Juri Linkov]

>> Sorry, but I think this Up icon looks out of place when compared to
>>Next and Previous icons.  Next and Previous icons have arrows on the
>>paper sheet in Portrait mode, but Up icon is rotated to Landscape mode.
>>Could you leave the paper in Portrait mode, and to rotate only the arrow?
>
> I've fixed that now.

Thanks.  Now Up is consistent with Next and Previous.  I only wonder
why the paper sheet on Next and Previous icons you got from the Gnome
repository has a different look than the paper sheet in search.xpm which
is copied from the same project?

Also I don't understand why arrows on Next and Previous are so
unconventional.   Usually when the arrow leads from outside to inside,
this means that you have arrived to inside this node from either next
or previous node, i.e. it denotes inward movement as in:

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/04/0428.html

A more correct ideogram would be the arrow pointing outside to mean that
you are leaving the current node to the next/previous node, i.e. the
arrow denoting outward movement as in:

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/04/0444.html

I don't know if we should fix these icons in Emacs, or to ask
Gnome developers.

>>I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before next/prev/up-node.
>>The reason is that in most browsers previous/next history icons are closest
>>to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
>>are related to) are located on the right.
>
> That is an easy change.  Is this what others think also?

There are currently also another inconsistency.  In the header line
navigational keywords are in the following order:

  Next: ...   Prev: ...   Up: ...

But on the toolbar the order of icons is different:

  prev-node   next-node   up-node

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/

Re: Diropen toolbar icon

[Jan D.]

Juri Linkov wrote:

>>>Sorry, but I think this Up icon looks out of place when compared to
>>>Next and Previous icons.  Next and Previous icons have arrows on the
>>>paper sheet in Portrait mode, but Up icon is rotated to Landscape mode.
>>>Could you leave the paper in Portrait mode, and to rotate only the arrow?
>>>      
>>>
>>I've fixed that now.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks.  Now Up is consistent with Next and Previous.  I only wonder
>why the paper sheet on Next and Previous icons you got from the Gnome
>repository has a different look than the paper sheet in search.xpm which
>is copied from the same project?
>  
>

There is a difference core Gnome icons and Gthumbs.  Apparently they 
where not synched.  As I understand it, gthumb does not use these icons 
anymore.

>Also I don't understand why arrows on Next and Previous are so
>unconventional.   Usually when the arrow leads from outside to inside,
>this means that you have arrived to inside this node from either next
>or previous node, i.e. it denotes inward movement as in:
>
>http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/04/0428.html
>
>A more correct ideogram would be the arrow pointing outside to mean that
>you are leaving the current node to the next/previous node, i.e. the
>arrow denoting outward movement as in:
>
>http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/04/0444.html
>
>I don't know if we should fix these icons in Emacs, or to ask
>Gnome developers.
>  
>

I think we have to do it ourselves, if we want to do so.

>>>I also suggest to place previous/next history icons before next/prev/up-node.
>>>The reason is that in most browsers previous/next history icons are closest
>>>to the left edge of the toolbar, and the Home icon (to which next/prev
>>>are related to) are located on the right.
>>>      
>>>
>>That is an easy change.  Is this what others think also?
>>    
>>
>
>There are currently also another inconsistency.  In the header line
>navigational keywords are in the following order:
>
>  Next: ...   Prev: ...   Up: ...
>
>But on the toolbar the order of icons is different:
>
>  prev-node   next-node   up-node
>  
>

Actually here I think info mode should be changed (if we shall change 
anything).  It is more common for the order to be (prev, next) than 
(next, prev) in mail readers, browsers, pdf viewers and such.  I don't 
know who okays such a change, I guess the standalone info viewer should 
change also if Emacs changes.

    Jan D.

Info toolbar icons (Was: Diropen toolbar icon)

[Juri Linkov]

> I think we have to do it ourselves, if we want to do so.

Perhaps we should take the image of the paper sheet from new.xpm or
search.xpm, and add arrows to it.

>>There are currently also another inconsistency.  In the header line
>>navigational keywords are in the following order:
>>
>>  Next: ...   Prev: ...   Up: ...
>>
>>But on the toolbar the order of icons is different:
>>
>>  prev-node   next-node   up-node
>
> Actually here I think info mode should be changed (if we shall change
> anything).  It is more common for the order to be (prev, next) than
> (next, prev) in mail readers, browsers, pdf viewers and such.  I don't
> know who okays such a change, I guess the standalone info viewer should
> change also if Emacs changes.

We could change the order only on the header line.  And with
Info-use-header-line=nil, the order in Info buffers in the Emacs
reader could remain the same as in Info files.

There is one convenience with the current order of links in the header
line (i.e. "Next: Prev: Up:").  You can place the mouse pointer on
the Next link on the left side, and to visit subsequent nodes by
clicking without moving the mouse pointer, because in every node the
position of the Next link in the header line is the same.

However, if we change the order, the Next link could be right justified
on the right side of the window like this:

Prev: ...                     Up: ...                   Next: ...

-- 
Juri Linkov
http://www.jurta.org/emacs/