From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: L10n deserves to be systematized Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 18:31:50 +0900 Message-ID: <40FFAD6B-06DB-400E-A170-D22849155740@gmail.com> References: <52ebee64-0887-6039-3959-2fd5f6b5fd0a@F123.org> <838tmchf6m.fsf@gnu.org> <3001d859-43e4-7c1e-5298-2f2418c84c5b@F123.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1493976779 19916 195.159.176.226 (5 May 2017 09:32:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:32:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert , emacs-devel To: Fernando.Botelho@F123.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 05 11:32:55 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1d6ZbY-000509-A8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 11:32:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45918 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6Zbd-0004uM-Og for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:32:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38384) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6Zah-0004sl-NI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:32:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6Zag-00088k-Nn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:31:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x243.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::243]:35538) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1d6Zac-000865-2K; Fri, 05 May 2017 05:31:54 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x243.google.com with SMTP id u26so89992pfd.2; Fri, 05 May 2017 02:31:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/Nu5mrt2jJCu15PX3p5GmkE33R2i1czbPQpsQmCGank=; b=fjypwUgKjMxeuYoXlAtCEXAGQ8wDI1806MtDnZDb4YOaUDjev6f5OMZQh7ngiHPrSp ugXAz+6DrpUEO4n00EljCpmTx2/g59enq95fdINF9ycmU8k/hzn+Ow3ypIAqJBfbVD1j diDkLAVqAi4jAg2fiQAWSQy3W+dBKX/pswFPf7CONoB+3P6bdKv4QGkPiklquWktUWEK xGrwAZzSO2dcpO/vlme/4C8+kpWdFy6+P3vJqV1y4Ow80lplXCRNIrdqLjA4KsSk0LWz SHTTm4nzhVSDNyxvgGy+bs70PBC+KsqOhtQVn75UwICpfowmOTooS6tpQprZPXv5PHeb XYjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=/Nu5mrt2jJCu15PX3p5GmkE33R2i1czbPQpsQmCGank=; b=tUSp/wWldp3I3uwSH+iypD5/UBmvgSKj/z5msupNu/vPuziPwPnl+T2U8S3mYv1XlF 30DCZJUjlq5HzTKpq2zCdUYKIG1BKXObBSWlnkDvnKQRT8OQEB/CY+aunCcpTfNOG3xi pIgDAWW101gXdBBhmg9lkhlJPHsryguYHMWSqfiPUSoV/B1BGn3Xb06d8cjWUDXWQRlm GCc7Tp4mkx4wyKDpDDHK3pxdfksm17i5/iOUYtGLel6mEboiRwiZuQKddRUdFR1r6Wcu 3q9PBEnjUGsqPxVfSPq8UiFK5Ze27Ri0O9cGtswdAAdgDZgmSAi2Pndp4U0asN7qwqU8 DTrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/4TZx+W+DECx3Dn1nhD1MB8pXmoCQHo4vOQMfFndJwJhPbJJk5p vhiwykIHbIXlWA== X-Received: by 10.99.104.9 with SMTP id d9mr2113698pgc.27.1493976713074; Fri, 05 May 2017 02:31:53 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.182.208.159] (dcm1-221-170-66-71.tky.mesh.ad.jp. [221.170.66.71]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z68sm2514966pgz.14.2017.05.05.02.31.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 May 2017 02:31:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3001d859-43e4-7c1e-5298-2f2418c84c5b@F123.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::243 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:214577 Archived-At: > Apologies Jean-Christophe. I did not mean to imply that I had learned = nothing from the interaction on the list. It is clear to me that the = usual translation of interface, etc, is beyond our current resources. I was not suggesting that, don't worry :) > This is what I was suggesting. A list focused on Emacs translation = rather than coding. But like the github issue, we will need a = GNU-approved host. Not really. What we need is to have a process that produces good = translations and then a way to deliver the translations that is = compatible with the GNU project. > =46rom Eli: > "Not sure why the mailing list is not in the CC." In CC here. > The Lisp reference manual is for programmers, and those usually have a = much better control of English." That's a common misconception. Programmers rely first on ressources in their language and then try to = make sense of the rest. In the case of the Emacs/Elisp manuals the rest = is a very verbose set of files and is in fact quite difficult to make = sense of when you're not a native. > "I would propose to focus on the user manual. =20 In fact, I'd suggest the opposite. Emacs has already a huge volume of = introductory and advanced materials on the web and in print and is thus = quite accessible for non English speakers. The Elisp reference is simply not that widely available. Also, as I mentioned in an earlier mail, translators are generally good = proofreaders. They can find a lot of errors, inconsistencies, hard to = understand parts, etc. And this work would in fact contribute to = native's access to the documentation. But in the end, it really is up to the translators to decide what they = want to work on. > I am still not sure what I will be using. OmegaT uses Java, and being = blind, I have had bad experiences with that in the past. So I will have = to check and see if it is accessible. I will ask a blind translators = list I heard of. I've had a lot of exchanges with=20 >=20 > In any case, setting up the git repository and email list, and = announcing it on the Emacs lists can attract some attention and possibly = other translators. >=20 > Fernando >=20