From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 23:26:48 +0000 Message-ID: <3ec7e2e58a9fe639bf31@heytings.org> References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> <3ec7e2e58a0cce3eda09@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3572"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 08 01:27:48 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lUHaO-0000p1-4G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 01:27:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34092 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUHaN-0005Tj-5l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:27:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39328) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUHZW-0004fY-6l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:26:54 -0400 Original-Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:33202) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUHZU-0001XR-CO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:26:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20210101; t=1617838009; bh=Pemd4WXZW8hx9oH8nD5Sk+32QTHYnAmF+7VHNkRUeb4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=H7ZTl5S/N4+DA29JZSh+HJVLSYQrYqp4BhSP6/1OhNa+Gj2UT3OtozGWR9BKsFrdd OtgYZEtUFHjctZlim67sXpu7fbI6Y2bjiPxpzt1zq6886RFxUJXadfvZTfmGepRC6/ uEH7JbGodYfZK/65rOF2C+ukLtsxP52SbcfVnxpvoxJpeVdXB+/EH5cZjD0mI0Y4cS WiyWzKW3pAVSxRPM/aXleVq87M0bQdPgUH6INSLJb0eRHQ4XhC3AHFKIgn2iJ9GcHl Sdks/YjZNX5in2bKBuwu/bwcCaMoKjaTTCnDqlGc5ACpA4vSObH2gaCV5RafHxsVfE wAt4QAC06sU5Q== In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.142.160.155; envelope-from=gregory@heytings.org; helo=heytings.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267589 Archived-At: >> I would add "C-s to search, " after "to scroll,". > > IMO that command is less useful now that this screen is not a wall of > text, so I'd rather avoid that verbosity. > The text, even with sections and a nicer formatting, is still rather long, and IMO isearch is very useful there. I remember that I found the fact that there was no way to search that buffer rather frustrating when I started using Emacs, it just kept disappearing no matter what I did. Moreover with just "(Type SPC ... or q to exit.)" it looks like these are the only options, where in fact a fourth key (and AFAIK only a fourth key) is defined. >> I find the last section name "Language Help" unclear. > > This is the same name as the section `(emacs) Language Help'. > > FWIW, I personally find it's clear from context, but if you have an > equally short alternative, I'm all ears. (And perhaps we should then > also update the Info manual accordingly.) > Equally short will be difficult ;-) The section title of the Emacs manual is "Help for International Language Support", I would suggest "International Languages Help" or "Help for International Languages". >> Why did you put a blank line between where-is and apropos-command? > > The intention is to divide this into two subgroups. > Okay, then I suggest dividing other sections into subgroups, to make the blocks less intimidating: pPel / tgs. C-a C-e C-f C-n / C-d C-m C-p C-t / C-c C-o C-w