From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs default bindings Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 03:23:40 +0300 Message-ID: <3c4c22a2-b81f-a47b-a836-d52d8eeacdb4@yandex.ru> References: <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> <01341bd6-b94b-4f94-1461-405e723142ad@yandex.ru> <8735qmjklm.fsf@localhost> <87ilzi86h7.fsf@posteo.net> <875yvh9anq.fsf@posteo.net> <83o899yjh2.fsf@gnu.org> <2aed65dd-bcec-8e0e-e48b-7664a041f98b@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2587"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 Cc: philipk@posteo.net, danflscr@gmail.com, lokedhs@gmail.com, yantar92@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Stefan Kangas , rms@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 28 02:24:39 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mV0vH-0000UO-7Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 02:24:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39704 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV0vF-0002j9-8y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:24:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45148) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV0uX-00022n-2e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:23:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]:38813) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mV0uP-0008Re-Ry; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:23:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id u18so54918398wrg.5; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 17:23:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=74iMuActI1kdo7f3NhYNTGzvKOJihJETx5XsQWcwiZ4=; b=PIENx1gAPfA645AnLOvKCIyDTr2k9gfvIrpAd07Tb540Y5J5HpTRSEk7LDyAWkxKjv uXor9KTrlMvphoQNHocWK7Fu4HXeqS7cOj6mIL7se24xXQT0mM1R87xO0IGfIIWU5VFV t6Isz/I3AvncHdkLVnBETFbDbWIJrGDtI9z2jW5Gej+vZKv/Ru47pQ/nMBDTJg2eP+Q3 QJJqNEyuQooysBIoGxfVuBMqTiQnLihGrIIV2vCLkx4AAXweisk8ZEoWIeXO8W3c0nEd V4IHpREn0uIQi/BWnzyinU+xT/e/HjpcTjaefxct6O8lGSMUNAmJaQmgvYJgtNLA73UH vgpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=74iMuActI1kdo7f3NhYNTGzvKOJihJETx5XsQWcwiZ4=; b=cGyUuX9hgJtFUxh+DvYnomftt8R0ZjY9ER1dEdFZPy+elZIjxNnYYeOslg8RHTskoY H4NoRw2CEW59L+YEU0dS6ZQSsSKGDcZ3O+WMSeEcSXVWD8w0W5nNynik1Cupm7JK5XaD KcLHTfScbgWR94TCAeQclRiKOSIR0aRzOm8my2W+mFqSO/ga2RtwFX8M4Ep9Lf1xLVap 6SWaJma7ery4I1pHwsn1QbsYfWs0d4wUetssQgfhsbpJ8D/VTH42yY9UFrojwrdxu3n6 1vNP5I5F6VQj6kE5SMMCqaDuMJ5/gkTMKz3cw9uNh7R9IHbevXaHsNz767keAGahDJoI nYGA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533nbQGFjT/axHdJMHmIH0wdMCKNAA5iNiVFMKWlOPWMLO36slnO Kjt1ntLDG2ml6OvNL3Fzwsc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkouA1NBCgGeBVhcI6qlx90aeJJ6/832X3MgnX5eZjMHPlaAmHd+3+Ku61+Hj4Z6Ghipghlg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:fd10:: with SMTP id e16mr3068252wrr.377.1632788623847; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 17:23:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.6] ([46.251.119.176]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c17sm919643wmr.15.2021.09.27.17.23.42 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Sep 2021 17:23:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::42c; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x42c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -45 X-Spam_score: -4.6 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-3.136, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275634 Archived-At: On 28.09.2021 03:11, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Dmitry Gutov writes: > >> Perhaps you are in the minority? > > Perhaps, but I doubt it. For example, LibreOffice does not highlight > parenthesis. > > This is very much a case of programmers imposing programmer defaults. > But Emacs is not only used by programmers, it is a general purpose text > editor. But where does "code" begins and ends? E.g. LibreOffice Calc does paren matching when one edits in the cell: https://ask.libreoffice.org/t/calc-parenthesis-highlighting/31988 And here's a person who apparently had a good reason to want paren matching in MS Word: https://word.tips.net/T001308_Checking_for_Matching_Parentheses.html Good enough reason to end up writing a bunch of Basic code ;-( >> We could flip it on universally, and then later change the behavior in >> text modes if we get some more negative feedback. > > Why not do it the other way around: flip it on for `prog-mode' and later > turn it on elsewhere if we get feedback that it would be better. Do you have an implementation strategy in mind, BTW? The one I suggested (putting 'prog-mode' into show-paren-global-modes) has a drawback of actually bothering _every_ existing user: those who have not enabled show-paren-mode will see it enabled; but those who have enabled it already, will see it disabled in all modes but prog-mode descendants, and will then have to hunt down the way to change this.