From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stepping Back: A Wealth Of Completion systems Re: [ELPA] New package: vertico Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:14:44 +0300 Message-ID: <3b0aec7e-3ca1-3927-b359-fc7b9ad417a1@yandex.ru> References: <9c9af088-580f-9fb1-4d79-237a74ce605c@inventati.org> <874kgkxxs0.fsf@posteo.net> <78741fe6-2612-d7c9-2bc4-0b68ea7fa51a@yandex.ru> <76a4d0e2-117b-165d-d56e-5bc2f504b50c@yandex.ru> <87blapln0r.fsf@posteo.net> <37bd2e96-ce04-eb6d-24da-fdd7ea427e61@yandex.ru> <87im4wx2ct.fsf@posteo.net> <83ft0080hi.fsf@gnu.org> <16784f40-b959-9a84-65d4-93b71d1bebec@yandex.ru> <837dla7ghj.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf9q5r7k.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnt957rc.fsf@posteo.net> <837dl93ppw.fsf@gnu.org> <8b54a223-1359-a8da-61c2-d7947b1c201a@yandex.ru> <83y2do3cqx.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; 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Sun, 11 Apr 2021 14:14:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83y2do3cqx.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::336; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x336.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -4 X-Spam_score: -0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267915 Archived-At: On 11.04.2021 21:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 20:16:29 +0300 >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca >> >> I agree we should be able to keep both kinds of completion and let the >> users choose they generally prefer, that's why I made emphasis on which >> usages really *can't* employ the wrong kind of completion (and thus >> would generally follow the programmer's hint and not the user >> customization). > > I'm not sure there could be use cases where it is clear up front which > UI is "right" and which is "wrong". In every situation I thought > about there could be a place for both, depending on what the user > wants to do and how. We have discussed the case of xref-show-definitions-completing-read, whose use of completing-read you described as "very confusing" and "weird paradigm". Whereas xref-show-definitions-buffer provides, in a way, a "selecting read" behavior, which you are fine with. So if xref-show-definitions-completing-read could itself reliably use a more "selecting read"-like interface, the impression should be better. >> I do think it's unfortunate you're adamant about using only one of these >> approaches, because we're missing out on valuable feedback and >> recommendations this way (and maybe some strategic support) > > You make it sound like I could easily use the other approach, but just > won't because I'm stubborn or worse. Nothing is farther from the > truth. I cannot change my workflows, they are burnt into my muscle > memory. I can only try "the other approach" briefly, and that is > unlikely to give you any useful feedback. I do not think it is easy, nor do I think you owe us anything, or that you don't have better things to do with your time. I do believe the odds are high you could improve your workflows if you spend time on it, but I don't really know your work requirements, so I wouldn't bet a house on this. But I'll probably continue asking for it, because even minor improvements in your efficiency are a win for us all. And the other stuff mentioned previously.