From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Why was `transient-mark-mode' turned off for `delete-selection-mode'? Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3b045884-0f98-49f3-addd-227a3c1403d1@default> References: <60d75d3a-d04c-4394-800b-60b65fafdb11@default> <2ffbe01d-ef46-4467-83a6-4714a192ba8b@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1409867126 23178 80.91.229.3 (4 Sep 2014 21:45:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:45:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 04 23:45:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XPeqE-0008Uk-JK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 23:45:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54282 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPeqE-0003qO-5d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 17:45:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41095) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPept-0003lE-VY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 17:45:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPepk-0006Tq-IW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 17:44:57 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:41029) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XPepk-0006TC-Bi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2014 17:44:48 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s84LikwA002749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:44:47 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s84LiiqO002149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:44:46 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s84Liial000377; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:44:44 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174022 Archived-At: > >> > Why should `delete-selection-mode' no longer enable > >> > transient-mark-mode'? > >> > >> The question is the reverse: why should delete-selection-mode > >> enable transient-mark-mode? > > > > Why is that the question, for a proposed change to Emacs? >=20 > Because you're advocating for delete-selection-mode to enable > transient-mark-mode, so it seems quite relevant to ask why you want > delete-selection-mode to enable transient-mark-mode. You are the one advocating for a change in the longstanding behavior. Apparently you can give no reason for it. (?) > E.g. give us a concrete situation where that would be useful. I did, several times now: Be able to see clearly what it is that you are typing over (replacing or deleting). That's why this behavior was invented in the first place (outside Emacs): highlighting the selection and letting you type to replace what you see highlighted. Hey, it took what, 20 years or so to get Emacs to turn on transient-mark-mode by default, so users can see the region which they act on. Why is that? The next step should be to turn on delete-selection-mode by default, but that will likely take another 20 years or so (10 have already passed). Why do you want to go backwards from a useful and user-friendly behavior that has established itself solidly everywhere over the last 30 years? Why take away the visual feedback showing which text delete-selection-mode will replace by typing? Go ahead: I've given a reason why users should see the region. You tell us why they should not, please.