From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Robin Tarsiger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 22:52:53 -0600 Message-ID: <3b0170ad-bb87-f79e-dbbe-f2e7097e2d3f@dasyatidae.com> References: <7ef75c33936136eb3a20@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33848"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 08 05:53:33 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l8yYG-0008hI-Cb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 05:53:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49168 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l8yYF-0004xL-Dy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 23:53:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49194) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l8yXS-0004Vd-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 23:52:42 -0500 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:53365) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l8yXQ-000728-87 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Feb 2021 23:52:42 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFAC5C0197 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 23:52:35 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 07 Feb 2021 23:52:35 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dasyatidae.com; h=to:references:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=I MxvqGFzT/C5tMAoiK/exUqnxFD407u1eEexCY1pp7Y=; b=mvhQKuhmYcE4lITtM ZjQujazwwxKrh2r2EuKDuV3uqYavhkU0Uoes4FhsVO7Z/OKXQw0s+03S6d+JGqHT 6nvk2/lmL/0a+dZGsHxrqxcHP8Z1fzFyTHvXOp6CPQ+GDnWLaAJ6OdTZogoqIxF7 sHIDV1JNa2ajvzT1J3t9tqVTpRqlAbVSwYgTBNysR9YGgrxxCkhZAGCxyLJDov3f FCC15J4OaUsVGoOSPcFa1Jsz8S5FpXdIScx3UaaoVjwOk4Sn5l5/WAYXpzc4kBkC TrrPz+oBpj72GnAg84t3W1Afo5zY5EECiD6H/TBYXo6vi7zAj8wjaeVcnX7HLDKq EIqIw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=IMxvqGFzT/C5tMAoiK/exUqnxFD407u1eEexCY1pp 7Y=; b=DW5LyWPKouKUiOs2c/33ur/oRMtEA4Zt7w+ArKinsvYeiyl7jnZIa/uc6 rfFlO3/wqsCF/uBWtK2BWw+ziCHevvj6fB6doixSgWoafb+O+nNtlKrntkoFJ/+0 viEYfjQjKxW2VVtnZLKHrmR6IVElolCFEFKCR37X+kx8E/qOREauNtba3KA4J9xf vugDEbQj07IG5SaBXaptvLLPq9SUUouU2vXpMR2nBAud1jkFWYbmZAbli4QgFBiw KEr1e3dJcUv5ZdxuTpCTJZnEuyv7WqSxT6ZpBgEpIV6Nbv8zM1S17GJYN+kLPkuM RwvGuX/asJbmaItPRf8gt+E2DW3MA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrhedvgdejgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepvfhfhffukffffgggjggtgfesthekre dttdefjeenucfhrhhomheptfhosghinhcuvfgrrhhsihhgvghruceorhhtthesuggrshih rghtihgurggvrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedvudfggeffieegkeeuueefvd ekffekheevvddtgeevledthefhkeeffefgkefgkeenucfkphepjeeirddvheefrdejhedr feegnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprh htthesuggrshihrghtihgurggvrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from [192.168.1.65] (76-253-75-34.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net [76.253.75.34]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4BFE11080059 for ; Sun, 7 Feb 2021 23:52:35 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <7ef75c33936136eb3a20@heytings.org> Content-Language: en-US-large Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=rtt@dasyatidae.com; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264154 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings wrote: > Option 1. C-z, with a single exception: "C-z C-z" would be bound to "suspend-frame" > > Option 2. C-z and M-z, with two exceptions: "C-z C-z" would be bound to "suspend-frame", and "M-z M-z" to > "zap-to-char" > > Option 3. C-o, with a single exception: "C-o C-o" would be bound to "open-line" > > Option 4. C-o and M-o, with two exceptions: "C-o C-o" would be bound to "open-line", and "M-o M-o" to > "facemenu-keymap" In my own init code, I use f8 as a prefix key for a bunch of custom bindings, including for global Calc, SLIME, and Org commands. This seems similar in general nature to the desired use for third-party packages, and I notice that f5--f8 are all available in vanilla Emacs. That would obviously be less disruptive than repurposing an existing key, but I don't know how reachable those keys are in everyone's configurations. For those who use them, M-z and C-o are frequent in normal editing. C-z potentially less so, but I don't really know that---I would expect it to be more redundant in GUI Emacs where there is usually a window manager gesture for iconify/deiconify, but in TTY Emacs it's a necessity; but C-x C-z also exists and indeed parallels C-x C-c better than C-z currently does. ("Preserve the normal behavior of control keys" is already out the window from C-c being a prefix, though of course that doesn't obviate the "users may need to retrain" difficulty with any of these.) I don't find M-o very useful currently because most modes don't preserve faces meaningfully, and it's already a prefix key, but that idea feels really weird for some reason. I _kind of_ like this general idea because the current situation is getting kind of hazardous. _But_ if any of these do happen, make sure the symbol for the sub-keymap is exposed so the user can move the whole thing somewhere else from init code. -RTT