From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: PPAATT@aol.com Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bindings reserved for users Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:47:05 EDT Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: <3b.25a27f0c.29f6bfd9@aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1019569745 5168 127.0.0.1 (23 Apr 2002 13:49:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:49:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 1700fI-0001LF-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:49:04 +0200 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1700gU-0004gB-00 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:50:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1700f4-0005Pz-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:48:50 -0400 Original-Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by fencepost.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 1700dj-0005I1-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:47:27 -0400 Original-Received: from PPAATT@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 7.3b.25a27f0c (16485); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:47:05 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: rms@gnu.org X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:3108 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:3108 > > > From: rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman) ... > > > Since such characters are not available > > > on all terminals, ... > > > People won't want to use these keys > > > in major modes or minor modes > > > meant for general use. ... > > ... Emacs by default already does bind > > infamously country-specific keys ... > > insert ... C-] ... C-[ ... > Date: 4/22/02 1:47:52 AM MDT > From: rms@gnu.org (Richard Stallman) ... > None of those keys is country-specific ... > C-[ and C-] are ASCII characters. > INSERT is a function key. ... > ... we were talking about > country-specific *letters* Some key assumption here remains as yet unvoiced. Agreed, [ and ] are chars of ASCII, and Insert is a word. But the idea of putting these particular labels on keys of the keyboard is peculiarly American. Even America is divided over the Insert key: keyboards from=20 Apple of California USA lack an Insert key. > C-[ and C-] are ASCII characters. Do we mean to say ^[ and ^] are in some sense ASCII chars? > > in some sense ASCII chars I think of Emacs as binding keys in terms of what they=20 conventionally self-insert. For example, we don't say end-of-buffer is on Meta+Shift+Dot. We say M->. We don't comment on the local issue of whether Shift+Dot or some other key chord conventionally self-inserts >. This attitude led me to expect I could easily change the binding of anything local conventions tells me I can self-insert, like ALL the letters of the local alphabet. Somehow this is wrong thinking. How is labelling a punctuation key ] less peculiarly American than labelling a letter key =F1 is peculiarly Spanish? Do we mean to say, to use Emacs, I should first learn to type all of the ASCII chars, and then all of the other keys typical of an American IBM PC keyboard? And anything American that I can't discover how to type, I should just forget it? (Except that C-q quoted-insert will let me insert it by octal code e.g.=20 C-q 1 0 1.) > > infamously country-specific Part of the infamy is that C compilers see ??( and ??) as meaning [ and ] precisely because [ and ] do not appear in the ISO 646 "international" "repertoire" of chars. Pat LaVarre http://members.aol.com/plscsi/emacs/emacs-deja-vu.html