From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kevin Rodgers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Will default key bindings spell the death of Emacs? Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:10:31 -0600 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <3ED68557.9090507@yahoo.com> References: <3ED67422.7060305@math.ku.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054246434 12552 80.91.224.249 (29 May 2003 22:13:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:13:54 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri May 30 00:13:53 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19LVcY-00038k-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 00:11:38 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19LVrP-0002xX-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 00:26:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LVe9-0003lV-K0 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 18:13:17 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LVdD-0002ib-NW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 18:12:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19LVcq-0002Dq-9u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 18:11:57 -0400 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.224.249]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19LVcb-0001i9-1B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 May 2003 18:11:41 -0400 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19LVZW-0002y4-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 00:08:30 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Received: from news by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19LVZE-0002xJ-00 for ; Fri, 30 May 2003 00:08:12 +0200 Original-Lines: 63 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:14433 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:14433 Lars Hansen wrote: > Users should not adopt to Emacs. Emacs should adopt to users! Users should adopt Emacs' ways -- it is far more mature than they are. Emacs _can_ adapt to users. > Emacs is said to be customizable, and key bindings is the first thing users > want to customize. But key bindings are much to hard to change! When I > started > using Emacs some years ago, I spend several weeks trying to figure out > how to > bind the most basic operations to the keys I wanted. In particular I wanted > ESC to do keyboard-escape-quit and C-z, C-x, C-c, C-v to do what they do on > MS Windows. That ought not to be difficult at all, it should be a piece of > cake, especially to new users! So we do indeed have a problem! Then you should submit a proper bug report: exactly what you did, how Emacs responded, and what you expected to happen. > Yes, it is a large task to implement a possibility to completely change > keymappings of Emacs, but never the less, IMHO it is the right thing to do. > And it could be done in small steps if we lay out a strategy. "We" will only lay out a strategy if you convince us that it's the right thing to do. But you haven't. > I work on MS Windows as well as on two Unix-like systems, and I am very > pleased with the uniformity in user interface I get from protable > applications > like Emacs. But to me it is not enough that the interface is the same. > It should > also be one that suits me. And the default Emacs key bindings do not. Yes, you've said that you prefer the Microsoft Windows conventions. But you haven't said how CUA mode fails to meet your preferences. > They > seem to be selected from the idea that all operations should have their > own key > binding simultainously! The result are long and complicated keystrokes. I'm not sure what you mean. Are you referring to Control-Meta- key combinations? You can avoid them by using ESC as a prefix to the corresponding Control- key combination, or using the menu bar, or defining your own "shortcuts" (key bindings). Or are you referring to the C-x and C-c prefix keys? In any case, I resent the fact that you think your individual preferences should become the default for me, even though I've been using Emacs on Unix exclusively for almost 20 years. -- Kevin Rodgers