From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Peter Flynn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.psgml.devel Subject: Re: [Psgml-devel] Re: Key sequence C-c C-f C-e uses invalid prefix characters Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:53:48 +0000 Organization: Silmaril Consultants Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <3E20BC9C.4000802@silmaril.ie> References: <3DFE4E98.1080204@silmaril.ie> <200301112010.h0BKAPb04482@rum.cs.yale.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1042351193 7778 80.91.224.249 (12 Jan 2003 05:59:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 05:59:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18Xb9w-000213-00 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 06:59:48 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18XbGm-0007Ci-00 for ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 07:06:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18Xb6p-0000WQ-00 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:56:35 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18XWBq-0000yN-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:41:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18XWAx-0000hU-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:40:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.d-n-a.net ([194.46.8.11] helo=ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18XWAe-0000IF-00; Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:40:12 -0500 Original-Received: from silmaril.ie (unverified [195.218.107.9]) by ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net ; Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:40:02 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en, de, fr, ga Original-To: Stefan Monnier X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 00:56:22 -0500 Original-cc: rms@gnu.org Original-cc: kevinr@ihs.com Original-cc: keichwa@gmx.net Original-cc: no-spam@cua.dk Original-cc: lenst@lysator.liu.se Original-cc: Ron Ross Original-cc: psgml-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Original-cc: mvidner@suse.cz Original-cc: Pavel@Janik.cz X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:10682 gmane.emacs.psgml.devel:96 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:10682 Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>Last I heard (and that was before Dave's patches were incorporated), >>>PSGML did not deal well at all with the situation where the DTD is >>>unknown, which happens to be the standard case for me. This is >>>why I spent some time improving sgml-mode. >>>I believe that Dave's patches do bring PSGML to the point where it >>>is about as good as sgml-mode when editing text without DTD, so maybe >>>it is now good enough to replace sgml-mode. >> >>I must agree with Peter Flynn and question whether Emacs' default >>*sgml*-mode be one that functions /a priori/ without a DTD. It's almost >>a contradiction in terms. > > > Maybe it's a contradiction in terms for you, but as I said, it's the standard > case for me. The DTD exists, but I simply don't have it. Forgive my curiosity but I'm interested to know why. > And I really mean SGML, not just XML. > The fact that sgml-mode doesn't even try to use a DTD is not a feature. > But the fact that it tries to be useful even in the absence of a DTD is. > Based on Dave's comments, I gather that psgml-mode now has a more > "graceful degradation" when the DTD is missing, so this might all > be a non-issue. It's pretty much a non-issue now: if the DTD is unknown or absent, then you're not editing SGML, you're editing plain text. But I agree, a mode which allows some syntactic response to pointy brackets is enormously useful in dealing with the typical end-user's imaginary markup systems, which traditionally require huge amounts of character editing of the markup to make them validate. ///Peter