From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:42:57 +0000 Message-ID: <3D89AF70-EED5-4071-9E0B-42DBFA34F3B0@traductaire-libre.org> References: <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0iuuacz.fsf@gnu.org> <83frz4mmef.fsf@gnu.org> <87le8wyr0x.fsf@brilhante.top> <83mstckon2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23149"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Cerqueira , pertusus@free.fr, stefankangas@gmail.com, vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 14:43:43 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNvLT-0005rV-9P for gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:43:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNvLG-0001DF-Sm; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:43:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNvLE-000167-3v for help-texinfo@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:43:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-40136.proton.ch ([185.70.40.136]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNvLB-0007Yj-B9; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 08:43:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704980594; x=1705239794; bh=8SH4965EajwkXpOLmjRPQ5lQf3pd4XqUnxvaWUC1y0Q=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=VEcziUGhSbpIOCErP1M77YBvuQDJe5cr99z+wA4LRrQgmIcthMpkhjIi3j/1iCVkW npPix2P42Sn1Mvn85+QHNfa2C8BeOaHnpGG0c4i8p1k4LmqtQF5JbWfDQ+eJSWrMrq KbSTAHUioDxJWl2dF2wGTAU34VtSHN82XUWv8P/iGBS12tpKw2CjdvfEA6vTY3IN/U iwVFeZGmBZOcHavibfnPpyIoXcnzo9iO0Zez4sk4F1Q++Eatk3Z1rg1O5enPfTQUD3 PRPH55pLYHaKwaKNUgy1GTZ54w2zbwkm4xmCv2p0D9X7FzNpmntOuqqyaWrv8pKdY9 80LiZlIIhyMcA== In-Reply-To: <83mstckon2.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.136; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-40136.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-texinfo@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the Texinfo documentation system List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general:3402 gmane.emacs.devel:314854 Archived-At: > On Jan 11, 2024, at 22:04, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Daniel Cerqueira >> Cc: Patrice Dumas , >> jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, >> vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, >> help-texinfo@gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 12:48:46 +0000 >>=20 >>> The translator doesn't always know whether a translated manual exists >>> when the translation is being written. And even if a translated >>> manual does exist, there's no reason to be sure it will be installed >>> on the end-user's system. >>>=20 >>> So it would be good to have some Texinfo feature that would make the >>> behavior of Info readers more user-friendly in these cases. Right >>> now, the Texinfo features that can help are @documentlanguage and the >>> suggestion by Gavin to have in the translated manual an @anchor for >>> each @node with the original English name of that @node. >>>=20 >> How come the translator doesn't always know whether a translated manual >> exists? Eli replied. But the discussion comes from an exchange on Emacs-devel=20 where we raised the issue of incomplete manual =E2=80=9Csets=E2=80=9D where= some=20 manuals are translated but refer to manuals that may not yet be=20 translated, etc. and that information may or may not be shared in the=20 translators=E2=80=99 teams and may or may not be available to the end user,= who=20 may, or may not install all the translated manuals or only a number of=20 them. Hence the question of how we inform that user that the link she clicked=20 on refers to something that may or may not be translated. The temporary=20 conclusion is that it would be nice to have an error message that gives=20 enough information in that regard, or provide a system that attempts to=20 look up existing manuals, etc. Manuals distributed with Emacs are not massively translated (yet), but=20 since they are the place where most of the linking is taking place=20 (think of the web of links between the Emacs manual and Emacs Lisp=20 reference), it would be nice to find a solution that satisfies the need=20 of the Emacs distribution but also of the other TexInfo based manual=20 distributions. Hence the discussion being moved here.