RE: delete-selection-mode

["Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>]

> So can we please return to the discussion how
> delete-selection-mode can be made to better fit with
> Emacs' handling of the mark?

That is not the question. That was not the question raised by Juri for this
thread.

Nor is the question for this thread whether we should disable t-m-mode as the
default (your proposal) or any of the other garden paths you've wanted to send
us down.

The question Juri raised is a simple one:

Given that many new users are in fact looking for d-s-mode (without knowing it),
should we simply enable d-s-mode by default?

Put affirmatively, it is a proposal.

In Juri's own words (yes, it's worth rereading them):

> I agree with Richard that the primary concern is doing what is useful
> for newcomers.  One of the most frequent questions they ask 
> is how to do what most other editors do - to replace selected
> text with a typed character or with yanked text, and to delete
> the region by typing <delete> without copying it to the kill-ring.
> 
> What they are asking for is delete-selection-mode,
> but they can't find it in the documentation because
> the feature name says nothing to beginners, and
> they expect to take this functionality for granted.
> Some recent examples of such problems:...
>
> Is that reason enough to enable delete-selection-mode by default?

Note: He makes the claim that this problem for newcomers is one of the most
frequent they have trouble with. That's the "Whereas" or "Given" part of the
proposal - you are free to disagree that this is a fact. And he jumps from the
purported problem of discovering d-s-mode to a proposal to make it the default.

You've made your vote clear against Juri's proposal. Now let's move on to
getting more votes for/against and hopefully taking a user poll. And if people
want more time to experiment with d-s-mode, as Richard suggests, that's a good
idea too.

But d-s-mode, as it is, deserves a decision about its becoming the default.
That's the proposal this thread is about.

(Personally, I'm OK with leaving the default as it is, though I think it would
help more people if we implemented Juri's proposal.)

But let's not divert this thread into either "Let's disable t-m-mode" or "How
can we modify d-s-mode 'to better fit with Emacs's handling of the mark'?".

Start another thread or two for such things, if you like. I'll gladly answer you
there that d-s-mode itself does not need to be so modified, but you are welcome
to come up with a new mode that provides any chimera or glorious solution you
like.

Please do not try to use the proposal of this thread, which is to enable
d-s-mode by default, as cover for trying to modify d-s-mode. It's OK for us not
to use d-s-mode by default. It's not OK to hijack the thread about that
proposal. And IMO it's not OK to mess up d-s-mode.