Re: Emacs Newbie Info Pages

[Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me>]

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> On Sep 12, 2024, at 20:26, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:
> 
> Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me <mailto:summeremacs@summerstar.me>> writes:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I posted a question in Reddit this morning about having an Emacs
>> newbie info pages on the front of the default Emacs page for complete
>> newbies and first-timers. I know that the splash page already has
>> information links, which are very appreciated, but I think that first
>> time users would be overwhelmed with the information and how to use
>> it. The goal of this project would be the following:
>> 
>> 1) A very visible (easy to see, and hard to miss) link at the top
>> which says something like “New to Emacs? Click here!”
>> 2) A simple “one page” info page with some general information about
>> Emacs and suggested setups. This would include:
> 
> Any reason for it being a "one page" (i.e. one section) page?  Why use
> Info, instead of a Help buffer?

Good question: The “one page” I’m envisioning is like another default splash page with links to the various sections and an easy return point (such as M-x newbie).

>> a) The link to the Emacs movement/editing tutorial (vital) and why it
>> is necessary to go through it.
>> b) A quick overview for non-coders/devs on how Emacs is special and
>> can be made to look like anything they want it to look like.
>> c) An explanation of how to configure Emacs in a basic way with a few
>> links to some suggested configs to get started “out of the box” (I
>> know this is contentious, please don’t bite my head off)
> 
> I think mentioning common configuration patterns, that might include
> use-package, would be more useful than pointing people to personal
> configurations.

I think some examples would be a good idea. You may not realize this but if I throw a (setq ) in the face of a newbie with little explanation, we might never see them again. My suggestion would be to include some bare-bones configs with lots of comments and what everything means, including the comments.

>> d) How they can download themes right away with some examples of some
>> basic themes and links to some popular theme packages.
>> e) An explanation of some bigger packages which they might be
>> interested in as non-coders (mostly writers or other office jobs) such
>> as: Org-Mode, EWS, Denote, Org-Roam, Fontaine, etc…a quick explanation
> 
> What is EWS?

Emacs Writing Studio. Just released.https://github.com/pprevos/emacs-writing-studio

>> of what each one does, a link to the page where the information can be
>> found.
>> f) How to use the configuration panels if they choose to go that route
>> with a few quick examples for them to try out.
>> 
>> Now, a few things:
>> 1) I’m not a dev. This is just my take from a non-dev perspective.
>> 2) I’ve heard there was work on a wizard setup a while back but that
>> it never went anywhere. 
> 
> There was a discussion a few years back, because of which I wrote and
> continue to operate https://emacs.amodernist.com/?  The people who know
> of it seem to like it.  It is not inside Emacs, but it's a M-x eww away.

You have to get a newbie to understand what M-x eww is. “Just RTFM” isn’t the same anymore. Veronica just did a video on how “The Manual” has changed over the years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lUiUQOvRHQ (this should be required viewing for anyone writing help files today - they even used to explain what the space bar is used for.) My point is: Emacs, while powerful, while understandable by those with a modicum of time and maybe a slight bit of computer experience, is not newbie friendly. I’m not aiming to hold the hands of developers who are used to looking up functions on the fly; I’m proposing we have a page with sub-pages of easily understood material for non-developers and coders. I also am not proposing that we “change” Emacs in any way - I love Emacs the way it is. It’s just want an instantly available newbie section. It’s not a huge ask, right? =)

> 
>>                        My suggestion is to use the info pages instead
>> of a wizard, but to make a newbie “home base” for new users which
>> won’t overwhelm them. I’ve already written about 3 pages but it is
>> very rough and needs a lot of work, links put in, and a lot of editing
>> because my tone is very different from the tone of the manuals. I’ve
>> never written a tutorial before, so I’m going to need some volunteers
>> to help me with some of this stuff.
>> 3) I don’t know what it takes to include such a thing into Emacs
>> proper. I don’t know how to patch things, or know what the specifics
>> are for submitting things in a proper way. Please don’t hold that
>> against me - I’m willing to learn.
> 
> If you can write Elisp, you can try to prepare a package as an initial
> draft that we could first add to GNU ELPA, then move to the core when it
> is mature enough.  Ping me if you have anything you want to submit.

I’ve been learning Common Lisp in between learning calculus to prepare for physics courses, as well as working full time and traveling as a personal assistant. Also, I have a very active social life. I’ll get to elisp when I have time. =)

> 
>> I wanted to write this email to put something concrete down rather
>> than just say “Emacs needs to be better for newbs” and not do anything
>> about it. Somebody suggest that I actually do, so I’m going to try.
>> 
>> I also don’t know if long emails are verboten here, so please excuse
>> the length of this email. I”m used to writing large business projects
>> and proposals where a few pages in length isn’t really much of an
>> issue.
> 
> This is certainly not the longest email I have seen here ^^

That’s good to know! Ty. =)

>> The reason I’m doing this:
>> I love Emacs, but I’m a special case and I know it. It was a sleepless
>> week of learning how computer hard drives and what a CLI was during
>> the lockdown of the pandemic eventually led me to Emacs. By then, I
>> wasn’t put off as much by the initial welcome screen., But I know that
>> many others might be. I’m not suggesting we change the welcome screen
>> because I know that’s an issue which causes fights and division in the
>> group - I’m just suggesting we have an area that is instantly
>> accessible to allow users to see something that Emacs *could* be if
>> they just learn a little bit. I hope that this is an acceptable and
>> practical suggestion which does not reach for the stars but is more
>> down to earth.
>> 
>> Thank you everyone who made it through this lengthy Email and I look
>> forward to hearing from anyone with helpful suggestions, comments,
>> and/or help.
>> 
>> Summer Emacs.
> 
> -- 
> 	Philip Kaludercic on siskin

Summer Emacs.


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