From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Konstantin Kharlamov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 14:11:29 +0300 Message-ID: <38a17d254ece0b05f80e84be3fdda728fc70dcd2.camel@yandex.ru> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8fnh1h2.fsf@web.de> <83mt0zs9rc.fsf@gnu.org> <0a968a4e1b267c0f15dd237e6ea12a709fc06d5e.camel@yandex.ru> <838rcisj7o.fsf@gnu.org> <6537fa5fa5c1fe8437ed99ee0988e35895f5a54b.camel@yandex.ru> <8423a35750d8d8e0437c7708f6b4d0bbdfdb7fe0.camel@yandex.ru> <87o7ldf7ky.fsf@web.de> <8cc19084ab18d0adb0f2cee4af14aa1b1d914a83.camel@yandex.ru> <83sfapnl57.fsf@gnu.org> <83pm5tnk78.fsf@gnu.org> <73cbe80096cd97728fcdaccf9f9badeea606570b.camel@yandex.ru> <87jzw1doma.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14312"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.2 Cc: Eli Zaretskii , ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 18 13:12:40 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqKk-0003XZ-0r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:12:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqJn-0006mG-No; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:11:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqJm-0006lK-29 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:11:38 -0400 Original-Received: from forward502c.mail.yandex.net ([178.154.239.210]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqJj-00078z-Ga; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:11:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-39.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-39.sas.yp-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c08:2087:0:640:7bf5:0]) by forward502c.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 64FBA5E81E; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 14:11:30 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-39.sas.yp-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id TBdbdwVDemI0-BU0Leybe; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 14:11:30 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.ru; s=mail; t=1687086690; bh=lHbcs4ZVfAg6qppkwWCfkkVQ/pqvTW6Wepu0ZF7Vsoo=; h=References:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID; b=K7028w7CCW9TfIUL+Op9f+S23Q2v8xEiWD3wHb4bBf+VUSUzJYvlVKb3aWyAXqnAq 4Gz8dLVtPKOOsRBAYm7RPSBBvjbqyAqH83yZFjwz7u+oC+szl270K5Ft8MxQQH8tEP sD+y5i5pDQmLxs6oXBKiV3PbaLUA8lRPsL9loQro= Authentication-Results: mail-nwsmtp-smtp-production-main-39.sas.yp-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.ru In-Reply-To: <87jzw1doma.fsf@web.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=178.154.239.210; envelope-from=hi-angel@yandex.ru; helo=forward502c.mail.yandex.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306964 Archived-At: On Sun, 2023-06-18 at 12:54 +0200, Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: >=20 > Konstantin Kharlamov writes: >=20 > > On Sun, 2023-06-18 at 13:22 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > > > Cc: arne_bab@web.de, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, > > > > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:13:23 +0300 > > > >=20 > > > > On Sun, 2023-06-18 at 13:02 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > > > From: Konstantin Kharlamov > > > > > > Cc: "Alfred M. Szmidt" , eliz@gnu.org, > > > > > > luangruo@yahoo.com,=20 > > > > > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0emacs-devel@gnu= .org > > > > > > Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:56:33 +0300 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > Okay, so, here's an obvious one: a patch series sent to > > > > > > bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > > > > > should not create separate bugreports for every patch. > > > > > >=20 > > > > > > In ML-managed projects it is typical to send patches as a serie= s, > > > > > > and > > > > > > when > > > > > > you > > > > > > doing that results in such surprising behaviour, it creates an > > > > > > additional > > > > > > emotional and mental load both for you and for maintainers who = would > > > > > > need to > > > > > > do > > > > > > something with these separate reports. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Our preference is to send patches as a single patch, not as patch > > > > > series. > > > > >=20 > > > > > That said, people are sometimes sending series, and we don't ask = them > > > > > to resend, we process those series anyway. > > > > >=20 > > > > > As for separate bug reports, this is easily fixed by merging them= . > > > >=20 > > > > Unfortunately merging bugreports does not fix that. The last patch = I had > > > > to > > > > Emacs was sent with a cover letter and resulted in two reports: one= for > > > > the > > > > cover letter and another for the patch itself. You may remember tha= t it > > > > resulted > > > > in a confusion, because =CE=B1) discussions happened on both thread= s, but > > > > then a > > > > new > > > > patch version was only sent to one of them, so there other thread w= asn't > > > > notified that comments were addressed, and =CE=B2) you may remember= 3 months > > > > after > > > > the patch got accepted someone was asking the status. Which is beca= use > > > > one > > > > of > > > > the threads was closed saying that the patch is applied, but then t= he > > > > other > > > > thread into which a person was looking has no such comment. > > > >=20 > > > > > So I see no problem here. > > > >=20 > > > > This is psychology. Having a report per patch may not be a problem = for > > > > you, > > > > but > > > > when a contributor sends patches and gets into such situation, they= do > > > > not > > > > know > > > > it is okay. They will be frightened and frustrated, because it look= s > > > > like > > > > something just went wrong. Such situation being okay needs at least= be > > > > mentioned > > > > in "sending patches" section, and at best it should just work. > > >=20 > > > Like I said: we prefer a single patch for each changeset.=C2=A0 The > > > problems presented by patch series are one reason.=C2=A0 And yet, we = will > > > never reject a patch series, even though it makes the process > > > inconvenient and confusing. > > >=20 > > > I don't see what else do we need to argued about here. > >=20 > > Well, you see, the "sending patches" section has no mention that a seri= es is > > unwelcome. And Emacs is the unique project where a squashed patch with = many > > commits is preferred over a series. >=20 > There is "When you have all these pieces, bundle them up in a mail > message and send it to the developers."=C2=B9 which to me implies to send= a > single email. >=20 > But it can easily get missed in the long text (datapoint for that: you > missed it), that=E2=80=99s why I think the text shown to new contributors= should > get changed. Well=E2=80=A6 yes, I did miss it. I see suggestions to have a change per pa= tch (which implies a series), but this sentence=E2=80=A6 Even now that I know the mean= ing, it reads differently for me due to the context around it. It is not about the amount= of text on the page. Well. Basically, the problem here is that this sentence just drowns among t= he talk about sending "multiple patches" (e.g. 2nd paragraphs starts with "Eve= ry patch=E2=80=A6") and me knowing that in ML-managed projects you always send= a series. I also don't think there's a built-in way to send a series as a single mess= age via `git-send-email`. At least ChatGPT says there isn't, though I didn't ex= actly study the man page to see if that's correct. And if a person has experience= with other ML-managed projects, they will likely send patches via `git-send-emai= l`. I think this phrase needs to be a separate point at the beginning, to empha= sise its significance. But then, if this is true, this again makes contribution harder for people, because this is different from every other ML-managed project, and creates additional work to open your email client, and attach the patches.