From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:17:09 +0300 Message-ID: <37bdcd8e-2bb4-fd21-d833-838bd26f5e56@gmail.com> References: <42c93165-2d85-8501-9cc8-99830b7b3646@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503515865 8277 195.159.176.226 (23 Aug 2017 19:17:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:17:45 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Radon Rosborough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 23 21:17:38 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dkb9X-0000xO-RC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 21:17:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45344 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkb9d-00072v-Vz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:17:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57265) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkb9R-00072e-0E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:17:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkb9N-0004SV-Q0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:17:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e]:36941) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dkb9N-0004SD-Hl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 15:17:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id f7so4565478lfg.4 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:17:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=fQx/jrVu1pIBmrchBTRcGtY/22R2XJAX6adiNzs4Jqo=; b=Eh4klDSnaAADMQTTnYGMF0bUBsQofrigsL6hp7lgfy2CmXoLzvICGJ3cGfWLdLQ+ag hKyutBCjSORqs8AP4H+XCQOdOF9lwIDbV5rJ821mX8py1QJfj9sV6lBOr6pWdRs6cUSk CWVWuxgz17XbNsxDJZGHuZytaHsC3s/yyadK9xru0XcE6zaFtSlugTBI4oW50fQo40/y FbWHMynRcmfJZQvyIgLBQTidgep9313coYOvdYW4pKRNmVo2Io4turOHm5ilgsHW7eKP zWn+RHyHnkF/BA8LB64s5BZFiQIWbu1xMhhT05+IfLWthSSQZLOUWIvXRHvY/0gE81AO oK3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:to:cc:references:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=fQx/jrVu1pIBmrchBTRcGtY/22R2XJAX6adiNzs4Jqo=; b=hEl3M2aYgWHiRPvPzpWFeB5aHGRdAfXP2o/0tFF6+VFbRxfaXeYWTKYhNt0ldsMH1K PoxU4ebadPXdzJfk7U4SQmYUgOGKNkzWbgEVLXL3wSOmgCPmxgkczYFQB1aGFoTp5Wt1 7ngfpurHM2xQdnLDjo8xYT4NvA0OJ9x95XXxKaWlOsj0/uES2cNOw353ijvaNauC1OII 7fK0RWDAYDdC93KzKyAy+qfHk/aSdBd6r/sfAWEkiW8ltUp7EE86sGpoq0EFNtNp2rgj ZmEifqASCy+/lE2Jrm4OVycwKGS6YSgyKpB9ptiEPVsz44Ny/ebbyA5wpnEhPhrsKmHO uGzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5iLsbAWjpNgpc6k+I/BfTbutv8vrddRfePk2YPl4G4wD5Y9Kwqk aFXz5oLbh7GtNPLo X-Received: by 10.25.18.87 with SMTP id h84mr1344301lfi.217.1503515831950; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.199.6] (broadband-95-84-209-126.moscow.rt.ru. [95.84.209.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s203sm359315lja.59.2017.08.23.12.17.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Nikolay Kudryavtsev In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217732 Archived-At: Of your two reasons: A. Yes, it's going to be annoying for two fractions of users, the targeted fraction - that is the beginners who didn't set up package.el right and old timers during some rare moments of messing with their configs. For the later this annoyance would be much rarer than the current situation... And I too would have preferred just removing any additions, but my proposal seems like an OK compromise. B. That other package manager should set the variable that suppresses the message either within itself or within its recommended configuration blob that you paste in your init. And I don't care about batch mode completely. If you're using batch mode, than you know what you're doing. As for writing package-initialize - well, in case you a)don't use package.el and b)don't use any other package manager and c)don't suppress the proposed message manually, it's pretty safe to assume that you don't have much of init anyway and you're our intended target. > This whole discussion started  because we don't want package.el doing > that. No, we don't want to write to init, but writing vars to custom is pretty normal and used by many packages. It's just that we can't solve package-initialize by writing to custom. > You're going to mucking around with one of the >   most fundamental parts of the Elisp interpreter (namely, function >   calls) just for the sake of the package manager. I'm just proposing to tweak error handling, that's it. While you're proposing to add another init file. And we're not talking about the sake of a package manager, we're talking about upgrading experience of a very limited subset of users(only those new users who haven't yet acquired the skill of copy-pasting magic spells into their init). So, while this is somewhat ambitious, adding another init just for that is even more so. -- Best Regards, Nikolay Kudryavtsev