From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCdiger?= Sonderfeld Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:12:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3685170.jtTJPXXftF@descartes> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <87bnnirso0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417799631 8758 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 17:13:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 17:13:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 18:13:44 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwwRq-0004wo-6M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 18:13:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51553 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwwRp-0006Hv-MM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:13:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33679) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwwRO-0006FI-Ht for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:13:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwwRH-0001Dp-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:13:14 -0500 Original-Received: from ptmx.org ([178.63.28.110]:59156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwwR8-0001D7-Hb; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:12:58 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ptmx.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5991D2D96E; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:12:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ptmx.org Original-Received: from ptmx.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ptmx.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7dHP7Yj9ESMA; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:12:35 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from descartes.localnet (chello080109100138.16.15.univie.teleweb.at [80.109.100.138]) by ptmx.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 893862C92C; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 18:12:35 +0100 (CET) User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-40-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <87bnnirso0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 178.63.28.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178954 Archived-At: On Friday 05 December 2014 17:02:39 David Kastrup wrote: > Can it be related to "Yelp" (the GNOME documentation viewer) nominall= y > supporting images, but if you start it on documentation containing no= t > merely a few novelty images but documenting every feature with exampl= e > images (like the LilyPond info tree does), it will hang literally > forever? >=20 > Emacs is the _only_ Info reader I know that can handle the LilyPond > documentation including images. The standalone info reader is not > phased by the LilyPond documentation, but it does not show the images= > either. I think the problem was that they never considered *.info to support im= ages. =20 That's why they never installed the images to the info directory in the= first=20 place and then started to add replacement text. It seems pretty rare t= o=20 actually see image files to be distributed with packaged info documents= . Just=20 take a look at your /usr/share/info (depends on your distribution of co= urse). =20 Before I submitted the patch to GNU Octave the only image there I found= was a=20 single one for libidn. I don't have LilyPond installed, but it seems t= hat the=20 Debian package (lilypond-doc) does not install the images to the info=20= directory either: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/all/lilypond-doc/f= ilelist =20 Not sure if Debian is to blame or if LilyPond doesn't install them. > Yes, and it is the only one really worth using. But Texinfo has more= > output formats than just Info. The problem is that info(1) is what most people experience as info. Bu= t yeah,=20 in Emacs we have a good viewer considering the capabilities of the Info= =20 format. And sadly other formats seem to lack index support. That's a = problem=20 we need to solve if we abandon Info, independently of switching away fr= om=20 Texinfo. I think Texinfo itself has a few issues as well. I only started using = it to=20 write documentation for the 24.4 release. I think Cross References (ak= a=20 links) are a bit confusing. Using a more popular language could lower = the=20 entry barrier. But then again I have a bit of a doubt that a change to= a=20 different format would really attract more people to writing documentat= ion and=20 on the other hand it would certainly be a hassle for the majority of pe= ople=20 already writing documentation. Regards, R=C3=BCdiger