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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320490 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Madhu >> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2024 20:35:46 +0530 >> >> * Eli Zaretskii <86ed8qlepr.fsf@gnu.org> : >> Wrote on Fri, 21 Jun 2024 14:25:52 +0300: >> >> > Thanks, but why do we need a cli utility when we have built-in SQLite >> > support? Can't we access the SQLite Archive files via that built-in >> > support? I'd prefer to have that instead of relying on external >> > utility. >> >> 1. Because the cli-utility will work even when emacs is not built linked >> to libsqlite3.so (sqlite is an optional dependency), only call-process >> is needed. >> >> 2. Because arc-mode is a good design abstraction, and extending it to >> support a new format is good design principle. >> >> Both of these are no-brainers. Why aren't they obvious to you? > > They are obvious, but there are other considerations which IMO > outweigh these. > >> When did "Introducing a new mode and code just to make an >> optional-dependency non-optional" become a design-goal of Emacs? > > It didn't. > Also it is not really an argument to complain about external dependencies when they come in the form of a library than a cli program, dependency is dependency. >> Youve been pushing this relentlessly > > I haven't. > >> since openssl (gnutls) json, >> treesitter, etc., all encouraging linking with 3rd party libraries, and >> removing the option of having the functionalitu in emacs, without emacs >> depending on those libraries. > > GnuTLS is preferred because the alternative communicates with Emacs > via signals, something that is much less portable and also an awful > design. (We switched to internal timers long ago for the same > reasons.) Are you talking about the OpenSSL CLI or the library? > JSON library was added because the Lisp implementation was not > performant enough. (Emacs 30 will have internal JSON code which > tosses the optional library, so this is now a moot point.) > > Tree-sitter was added because the internal fontification is not > performant enough and also requires us to have on board experts in the > corresponding language grammars, something that we found to be hard. > (Also, the original modes that do not require tree-sitter are still > available, and enabled by default.) There's also the advantage of using an upstream library vs. maintaining your own shim around Tree-sitter grammars. >> Is there some GNU related ideology behind this, or where did the memo >> come from? > > No ideology and no memo, just the urge to give you and the other users > the best, most performant Emacs we can. I also want to add that parsing command line utilities is hacky at best without a structured format. There's also the advantage that using extern libraries can workaround Emacs single threaded nature although that is something that external commands too however I don't think they are really intended as an interface to a library unless there's a defined IPC such as in the case of GNUPG.