From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: emacs-27 eebfb72 1/2: Document constant vs mutable objects better Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 14:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35184b98-c5e4-470d-b65e-303e7e7d6c70@default> References: <20200418200112.26900.1274@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20200418200114.85C8C20A2B@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87wo6c5vxf.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="45710"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Paul Eggert To: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 18 23:58:10 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jPvTU-000Bo8-NL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 23:58:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33872 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPvTT-00039e-Mp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:58:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34898) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPvSf-0002Wh-MD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:57:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPvSf-0006Qu-2a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:57:17 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp2120.oracle.com ([141.146.126.78]:42376) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jPvSe-0006O8-H3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:57:16 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03ILn6bC151784; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:57:10 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=INpS/qQL9kll2IeMb9gKMlCG3LS8imul9p6n+2ItSMw=; b=jI3PUKDQOLtjUGZl/ow6tCt4nRF2cEmwJRvZd1UX6DGCHERVEU+89WNXyg2IibfDhpfb SvybFcu4rlNynF6od7yPqvyjcl7CJG1c7EwN0T5njxyHvJ7iXQJj73CExSQpcjtoFygS 4QroDT9KxsYoie8R+kGDo7bcZJdf0KOc6kCMH9TvfZdM1xncdvMzv7eXYjBHGTNoU/Nv QJHKQAB2870Byr4IsQOtcn9cKSt3RDv7fRmJa5YMP3kVGPvaud2SkbjL/5C6jSUCyFGj sl8o8SIaLeplDz5z+/1PPtW7LbzgAxXWgJbaitaM05Flr2mDKNihRjuhOvaHmx/Wu6nm dg== Original-Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by aserp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30fsgkj00c-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:57:10 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 03ILlOjB060332; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:57:10 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30fqkaces0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:57:09 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0017.oracle.com (abhmp0017.oracle.com [141.146.116.23]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 03ILv9ch005787; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 21:57:09 GMT In-Reply-To: <87wo6c5vxf.fsf@gmail.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9595 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=578 adultscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004180181 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9595 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=652 malwarescore=0 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004180181 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=141.146.126.78; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=aserp2120.oracle.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.78 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247249 Archived-At: > "mutable" and "safely mutable"/"mutating it is > a good idea" should be distinguished. Exactly. > Similarly here. There are languages, Lisps even, that distinguish > mutable and immutable strings/conses. In such languages, trying to > mutate an immutable data structure leads to an error being signalled. > Conflating "mutable" with "safely mutable" is IMO bound to induce > confusion. Ditto.